Delayed effects, model talents and generally remembering the game-state

[Seadhna]

Now, this is a topic I've never seen brought up, but it has serious implications about how things work in Malifaux.

 

The initial question was:

suppose a model has the Monkey Paw trinket, discards two cards to gain the Reactivate condition, then loses the Upgrade for some reason (e.g. Hans shooting it off).

does the model still get sacrificed at end of turn?

 

My understanding is this:

there are effects that are resolved during the Upkeep step at end of Turn

despite the fact that Malifaux doesn't have an effects stack (think MtG rules), some Abilities cause delayed effects that are supposed to work regardless of whether the model owning those effects is in play or not. Obvious examples would be Dust Storm (Initiate Reformation says "Summon Ashes and Dust at end of turn" and then sacrifices the Storm), Big Jake (if he dies, he comes back) and Serena Bowman (same thing). There are also borderline examples such as Killjoy, Bete Noire and Scion of the Void, who are not in play but affect the rules.

So if a model uses the Monkey Paw, it still gets sacrificed even if it loses the upgrade before the turn ends.

This logic would imply that the game remembers certain effects regardless of their origin and resolves the effects at a specific time (obviously, there is nothing in the rules about delayed effects).

 

Then I found this in the rulebook (small book, p. 10):

Quote

A model’s Abilities are considered to be active during an Encounter unless otherwise indicated in their description.

 

This coincides with the above logic, but raises other implications.

Do things like the Seize the Day upgrade or Tara's Knowledge of Eternity still work when the master is not in play (killed or buried)? I'd assume by RAI that they don't, however the passage from the small rulebook seems to go against that assumption. There's also FAQ#130:

Quote

130) Can the Just Like You Action on the Malifaux Child be taken if the Crew’s Leader is not in play? No.

 

 

So here's the actual points of discussion here:

1) Is my understanding of delayed effects correct? Does the game remember things?

2) What happens to a model's Talents when it's not in play anymore, but they would still affect the game? Especially in light of the rulebook text quoted above.

[Ludvig]

Yes, the game would rememberthat you need to sacrifice just like it remembrr the unbury conditions of a borrowed pineboxfor example.

A models abilities are only active if they are currently in the game (so not dead or buried). This is to clarify that they are always on so not just during your own activation or needing ap.