Newbie. Gremlins or Neverborn.

[FateWitch]

Hey all! I tried posting this once before and got an error. Hopefully I won't post twice.

Anyway, I've been playing Malifaux for about a month now as Arcanists. They were great to learn the game with, but don't "feel right" to me.

I'm looking at Gremlins and Neverborn now and love both miniature lines. What I'm confused about is the difference in playstyles. They both seem like quick "glass cannon" factions.

A lot of Gremlins have Reckless that let them move around/achieve schemes/etc. While it looks like Neverborn have a lot of built-in movement and/or movement tricks. Both factions also seem to be able to hit fairly hard when needed as well.

I know Masters can switch up playstyles immensely, but in general can you all help to clear up what the differences are between the Gremlins and Neverborn playstyle wise? I haven't met anyone with either faction as of yet.

Sorry about this being another beginner post, but thank you all for hearing me out! 

[Dogmantra]

I'll let someone else chip in with what makes Neverborn unique from Gremlins (I wouldn't do it justice), but in terms of general gameplay trends, these are what I think Gremlins bring to the table unique to them (or at least not common):

• Shooting - the jury's out on which faction is the best at shooting, but Gremlins have a lot of it, especially compared to Neverborn.
• Activation control - Gremlin crews tend to be slightly larger than other crews, most models are cheaper but with downsides. Also, many models have access to 3AP from Reckless.
• Strong synergies - Lots of auras and buffs, particularly based on the Gremlin and Pig characteristics.
• Healing - Gremlins have probably the best & most accessible healing in the game, mostly to make up for...
• Self harm - Stuff that spends wounds in order to do better. Things like Dumb Luck, Reckless, even both summoning masters use wounds as their summoning resource.
• Card manipulation - There are quite a few ways to add suits or reflip cards or mess about with cards in general in faction, such as Bayou Two Card, Lenny's Dumber Luck aura etc.
• Controlled Chaos - In addition to self harm, there are quite a few things that can just go wrong and take control out of your hands, like Set'er Off on pigs, or having to declare a bad trigger on some models. These are the drawbacks for a lot of models that are otherwise really good at what they do. Don't be fooled into thinking Gremlins are a random fest though, because you do actually have a lot of control over the situation, but knowing how and when to exert that control is fun.

You're not going to see every single one of these points come up in every single game as Gremlins, but they're kind of overall themes of playing Gremlins. If they sound appealing, go for the green!

[FateWitch]

Thank you so much Dogmantra! That was excellent and exactly what I was looking for. Now just to see what the Neverborn have up their sleeves! Thank you again!

[Wolfpact]

As a caveat, I'm a newer player, and my 'Born pool is not that deep. But I started as 'Born and play both Jakob Lynch and Pandora,and since no one more-qualified has chimed in yet...

 

Some might argue,but my view of the 'Born is that they're the thinking player's faction. You can brute-force them, relying on speed, stupefying damage, and shock trooper tactics but they tend to reward going deeper, finding the synergies, and playing the combos.

 

But, I'll quote a nice forumite who advised me when I was (brand) new.

 

 

On 4/27/2016 at 2:34 PM, thebarbalag said:

Neverborn are hardly ever what they seem. While Lilith has a big sword, and can really dole out damage, she is also an amazing control Master, dictating where and when the battle takes place. Pandora is slippery and tricksy, but is also an amazing face-beating murder machine.

Neverborn also rely on layered synergies for maximum effect. Attacks targeting Wp which generate new attacks from Smell Fear, which push the target into a model with Pounce for another attack, all the while punishing the model for failing the Wp duel in the first place (for example, Pandora casts her (0) Incite at an enemy next to Teddy, and succeeds, which gets Teddy an attack from Smell Fear, Teddy hits and triggers (built in, yay!) Peek-a-boo! to push the enemy up to 4", which lands them in Ml range of Baby Kade who gets an attack from Pounce, but wait! Teddy first gets to follow the model he pushed, keeping it in engagement range so that Kade gets +2 damage, all of this happening while within 6" of Pandora and two Sorrows, and so, Misery triggers on all three, so assuming Kade's attack hits, the model is taking a minimum of 9 damage, and Pandora hasn't even spent any AP yet...). Abilities like Barbaros's Challenge, which force your opponent to take a Wp 14 duel to attack someone who isn't him when within 8", again, layered with the Misery ability of Pandora and Sorrows, or made nearly impossible by the presence of the Poltergeist with its Distraction ability. Using Waldgeists to create forests through which Lilith can charge after having used Sudden Darkness for +1 damage, or creating terrain to make hazardous for enemies when tossed about by Lilith's Transfixing Gaze. Using the Brillshaper action of an Illuminated, even when they don't need to heal to fish for Aces to fill up Lynch's hand for 52 Pick-up, or a devastating Final Debt.

Playing just about anything in Malifaux in a straightforward manner is a good way to lose. Neverborn doubly so. We're full of potential, but fraught with weaknesses, so you have to be tricky to cover the distance. Apart from a Dreamer crew, and a few tough models, like Waldgeists and the Depleted (and of course, the Illuminated, which you've got in Lynch's box) Neverborn just can't absorb casualties, and can't really take a hit. Even the very expensive Nekima folds under pressure, so the trick is to use her in such a way that you're the one applying the pressure, and not feeling it. It comes down to proper positioning, choice of target, and threat saturation, all of which you'll learn as you play...while at the same time remembering to play to your Strategy and Schemes...Malifaux is complicated, but like playing Neverborn, really rewarding for those who stick it out.

 

 

[FateWitch]

Thank you! That was immensely helpful as well, Wolfpact! Leaning more towards Never born aftee reading them both, but they're bother still tempting. Honestly, I'll end up with both eventually, so I'll probably start Neverborn (Candy is my favorite model in the Malifaux miniatures line) and grab some Gremlins down the road. Thank you both once more!

[Wolfpact]

I'll be honest, I kinda consider Candy a bit hit or miss (but love her model, too )

And hey, though I hear she's not the highest-tier, you can always use Zoraida as either Grem or 'Born!

 

Glad to help!

[-Loki-]

See, I had this dilemma when I was starting. I was looking at Gremlins and Neverborn, but when I was starting the only Gremlins crew was So'mer, and everyone just recommended to buy another box of Bayou Gremlins and a bunch of metals and that didn't appeal to me. Neverborn had a few more plastic crews and more on the release schedule that appealed. If there were a few more Gremlins in plastic when I started, I feel I would have gone green right away.

Now that everything for Gremlins is out or will be in the next year, I've started seriously looking at Gremlins. I feel collecting both is a nice compliment to each other. If you feel like being tricky you can break out the Neverborn. If you just want some random, hilarious fun put the green on the table.

[Wolfpact]

I do like having the Outcasts for similar purposes - they provide ranged firepower and scheming potential when dirty tricks and sheer viciousness aren't what I'm needing.

 

My only regular opponent is a true-green diehard one-faction loyalist with Grems though, so I can see how yeah, they might do similar.