Buying Shenlong tomorrow- how do Izamu and Komainu go with him?

[Anung Un Rama]

I have been eyeing off Shen Long for weeks and i finally decided to bite the bullet and go for it going to buy his box and the effigy becasue i love the effigies models. Now i already have models from my Ressers that i can use with him temporarily until i can afford to get some more figures. So with Yan Lo one of favourite resser masters I have Yin, Toshiro, Izamu, Chiaki and Komainu I can use in TT. I am thinking Izamu and the Komainu for now. I would steer away from Toshiro but Yin Is a possibility.

So the questions are they ok to play a games and learn Shen Long? Why dont people rate the monks that come in his box? If you had to choice between the Tengu and TTB for the next box which one would you go?

Im thinking :

Shenlong with low river style

Peasant

Yu with promising disciple

Izamu with recalled training

Shadow effigy

2 Komainu

Any help would appreciated.

[Tokapondora]

Izamu is amazing, especially with Shenlong, but while the Komainu are decent they don't add anything to Shenlong. They can be servicable, sure, but the TTB are generally better. Also, you seem to be a bit low on range and I don't think Yin can really make up for that. 

Also go TTB.

[Eclipse]

If you are starting with one Peasant you are going to summon the second on initiative - in which case take Wandering River Style at the start, it is always amazing at the start.
During the game switch the styles as required - although learning when and why will take some (!?) time.
If the choice is between Tengu and Brothers, take the Thunder Bros and don't look back.
From what I've heard most people love Izamu with Shenlong and push him and give him Fast like there's no tomorrow.
Komainu are solid, more solid then High River Monks from the box (this is why you hear nothing about them). Still, the latter can stack some Burning, like Shenlong's 6" (0) Focus bubble and are Ruthless.
If you take Toshiro and a Sniper or two with Shenlong you can interact/summon with a Peasant during initiative, with the summoned peasant (0) Focus > (1) focused Provide for Focus on a Sniper with the Slow Peasant. Shoot with the Sniper, (0) Focus and shoot again. Then kill the summoned Peasant with Toshiro, raise it as an Ashigaru and (0) pop the scheme marker for Focus on all minions if you so desire. Now you can shoot with the second sniper with focus, twice.

[SuperSalami]

I'll echo everyone that says Izamu; he's a beast with the pushes and fast from Shenlong and Yu.  Also, don't forget Low River Style.  It's not that hard to set up situations where Izamu just refuses to die because of the heals.

I've not played with Tengu, so I don't know much about that.  But I love TTB.  They have a reputation for being virtually unkillable, but that hasn't really been my experience.  They can be hard to shift, are great at running schemes, and Protect Our Holdings will generally have your opponent wringing their hands in impotent rage for most schemes.  Plus, with all the focus the crew throws around, their attacks can be surprisingly effective.  I would always take one.

Komainu are very solid models and if you already have them, they're fine with Shenlong.  I've taken Monks of High River a few times and been thoroughly unimpressed.  They die very easily and while their attack is decent it's not so amazing that it makes up for it.  If they were 5 points they would probably usually lose out to Brothers.  At 6 stones, it's no contest.

Yin is always worthy of consideration in any list that can take her.  She's rock solid in Thunders she can take Smoke Grenades, which basically makes attacking her at range pointless.

 

Lately, I've been playing a list of 

Shenlong

- Wandering River Style

Peasant

Sensei Yu

- Promising Disciple

 Lone Swordsmen

- Recalled Training

Izamu

Katanaka Sniper

Ten Thunder Brother

 

I started having a lot more success when I went to Izamu and the Lone Swordmen together.  Prior to that I found that I didn't have enough hitting power.  I think Katanaka Snipers are a bit over rated, but probably worthy of inclusion just to have something providing a ranged threat.  I'd consider a Samurai instead if I had one. 

 

 

 

[Eclipse]

 

I'll echo everyone that says Izamu; he's a beast with the pushes and fast from Shenlong and Yu.  Also, don't forget Low River Style.  It's not that hard to set up situations where Izamu just refuses to die because of the heals.

I've not played with Tengu, so I don't know much about that.  But I love TTB.  They have a reputation for being virtually unkillable, but that hasn't really been my experience.  They can be hard to shift, are great at running schemes, and Protect Our Holdings will generally have your opponent wringing their hands in impotent rage for most schemes.  Plus, with all the focus the crew throws around, their attacks can be surprisingly effective.  I would always take one.

Komainu are very solid models and if you already have them, they're fine with Shenlong.  I've taken Monks of High River a few times and been thoroughly unimpressed.  They die very easily and while their attack is decent it's not so amazing that it makes up for it.  If they were 5 points they would probably usually lose out to Brothers.  At 6 stones, it's no contest.

I started having a lot more success when I went to Izamu and the Lone Swordmen together.  Prior to that I found that I didn't have enough hitting power.  I think Katanaka Snipers are a bit over rated, but probably worthy of inclusion just to have something providing a ranged threat.  I'd consider a Samurai instead if I had one. 

Thanks for your input, it has given me a useful pointer or two, especially about what to expect from TTB.
Izamu and Swordsman together compensates for Shenlong and Yu together: Balance duo (mega) support with duo assault models. I'm not sure I'd want to be at the receiving end of that setup
The point of Katanaka Snipers is more in the psychological threat: It's very useful to be able to shoot at the other person's models, as for the most part players will try to hide their models from the sniper. The Sh 5 is low enough to be disappointing even with Focus most of the time. However, two focused shots with Yu around are waaay more solid..

[King Of Speling]

Komainu are better with Yin (cuddle to wp) and Toshiro (summoning) so I would only run them otherwise if against a crew with low WP models (nurses!) or ones with lots of defensive triggers.

Agree that TTB never disappoint.

[InvokeChaos]

I am not a huge fan of TTB, but they are solid. They tend to get focused down by my opponents who are very much aware of their capabilities. I typically run a pair of tengu to good success.

Toshiro isn't necessary because he doesn't provide anything additional but summoning. Komainu are solid, and will get the job done if you need them, but they have no direct synergies. 

The High River aren't terrible, but they aren't great either and that's a problem because in the 5-7ss range we have great to amazing. I have been looking for ways to use them more because I love the models, but as of yet haven't done any real testing.

Izamu is AMAZING with Shen, as is Yin. Their biggest weakness is their mobility, which Shen solves, while providing potential heals and easy access to fast and focus. A brief note on the healing potential: If you keep a peasant nearby to bop Shenlong with a defensive, Spend 1 AP to go defensive and he can 0 action for another. That means that he can heal one of them 8, or both of them 4... for 2AP.  That is RIDICULOUS for how tanky they both are.

I will also second that Izamu + Lone Swordsman makes your opponents cry. Ballistic Missile followed by an Abrams.

Snipers are a solid choice, I try to bring one every time because as Eclipse mentioned, seeing a sniper on the table, especially one as potent as Katanaka, makes you change how you play. 

Further sniper point: Have your peasant bonk one for focus. Then when you're sniper activates near Shen and Yu (ideally ;-) ) you shoot, then focus for zero and shoot again.  Two sniper shots are ridiculous and with the focus on both, and triple flips on the attack, you have a strong chance of getting that ram trigger and being able to cheat severe. That's potentially 12 damage from 36" away... that's just really really good.

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by InvokeChaos
Because I'm dumb

[SuperSalami]

One note on the Low River Style trigger to drop your defensive condition for an additional heal.  Both Mastery on Shenlong and Provide for the Temple give you Defensive +1 until the start of your activation.  So if you use a Peasant to Provide for the Temple, or Powerful Chi at the start of the turn for Mastery, you will lose the Defensive when you activate.  You'll likely need to use Mastery during your activation to get Defensive +1.  

The other part of Low River Style, Slow Waters Eternal Voice, gives you Defensive +1 when you succeed on a duel with an Enemy.  Since that doesn't list a duration, it lasts until the end of the turn.  So you could potential "keep" the Defensive when you activate if you got it from Slow Waters Eternal Voice.  There's also a weird corner case interaction where the value of a condition lasts as long as the most recent application.  So if you use Mastery or a Peasant and then get another Defensive +1 from Slow Waters Eternal Voice before you activate, you'd keep the full value.

Playing Shenlong will teach you more than you ever wanted to know about Conditions.

[InvokeChaos]

Yeah I actually knew that... but decided to be a numbskull and forget in my relaying and somehow think that oh bopping defensive will stay on... umm no. What you're SUPPOSED to do is 0 action, then 1 action defensive and now you can heal 8wds.

I will adjust my post above to reflect.

I will now commit seppuku for my failures.