Hayreddin gaining Vitality from Seishin

[Whut]

Hayreddin stands near a Seishin. Seishin takes 1 damage from something. Does Hayreddin gain 1 vitality from this? Essentially is the Seishin not counted for the aura even though the aura doesn't actually affect the Seishin at all?

Hayreddin: "Once per Turn, when another model within (aura)4 suffers damage, this model gains the following Condition until the end of the game: "Vitality +1"

Seishin: "Only Aether:  This model is immune to the effects of (aura) generated by other models."

[solkan]

58 minutes ago, Whut said:

"Curse of the First Traitor: Damage flips against other models within (aura)4 gain +."

I believe this would fall under Exhibit A

Yep.  My point was mostly that you might look at both Exhibit A and Exhibit B and describe them as having the same result (and they do have the same result until immunity gets involved).  But the way immunity works they end up with different results.

 

[CanYaDigIT]

Hayreddin's Aura has no effect on the Seishin. Hayreddin would get Vitality +1

[solkan]

21 minutes ago, Whut said:

Hayreddin stands near a Seishin. Seishin takes 1 damage from something. Does Hayreddin gain 1 vitality from this? Essentially is the Seishin not counted for the aura even though the aura doesn't actually affect the Seishin at all?

Immunity has a game definition:

Quote

A model immune to a game rule cannot be affected by that rule. The model never performs a duel to which it is immune. A model immune to Horror Duels, for instance, simply does not perform the duel.

A model immune to a Condition can never receive the Condition. If an Attack (or other source) causes damage and applies a Condition to a model, the model still suffers the damage, but it would not gain the Condition if it is immune. If a model gains immunity to a Condition while it has the Condition, it immediately removes the Condition.

Note the fact that immunity doesn't mean the model stops existing, and doesn't cause the rule to ignore the model.  Instead, the immune model simply isn't affected by the rule.

The Seishin isn't affected by Hayreddin's aura.  So if the aura would have caused anything to happen to the Seishin, it wouldn't happen.

The fact that the Seishin isn't affected by Hayreddin's aura doesn't make any difference to Hayreddin, because Hayreddin's aura doesn't affect it to begin with.  So Hayreddin gains Vitality +1.

 

[Whut]

29 minutes ago, solkan said:

Immunity has a game definition:

Note the fact that immunity doesn't mean the model stops existing, and doesn't cause the rule to ignore the model.  Instead, the immune model simply isn't affected by the rule.

The Seishin isn't affected by Hayreddin's aura.  So if the aura would have caused anything to happen to the Seishin, it wouldn't happen.

The fact that the Seishin isn't affected by Hayreddin's aura doesn't make any difference to Hayreddin, because Hayreddin's aura doesn't affect it to begin with.  So Hayreddin gains Vitality +1.

 

So for example, does Hayreddin get plus flips to damage against the Seishin if he attacks it? The effect does not affect the Seishin technically, it affects Hayreddin's damage flip.

[solkan]

31 minutes ago, Whut said:

So for example, does Hayreddin get plus flips to damage against the Seishin if he attacks it? The effect does not affect the Seishin technically, it affects Hayreddin's damage flip.

That all depends on how the aura is written.  Consider two different auras, and a Seishin two inches away.

Exhibit A:  "This model gains against models in 4"." 

There's nothing for the immune model to ignore, so immunity does nothing.

Exhibit B:  "All models in 4" gain the Condition Weakness:  Models attacking this model gain on attack flips." 

Immunity prevents the condition.

 

[Whut]

"Curse of the First Traitor: Damage flips against other models within (aura)4 gain +."

I believe this would fall under Exhibit A