Killersox Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 Hey guys, I am fairly new to the game and have been playing less than a year. I have a few different crews and have been having fun. This changed however when Jack daw showed up. His upgrades are super annoying as they shut down everything I have.at the end of a turn I can have all his upgrades on me and basically don't get to do something the rest of the game depending on what turn it is. Are there any tricks or tips to beating him? Are there any rules to the upgrades? Can I have more than 3 even if I have mine too? Example I have three of my upgrades and three of his. I mainly play dreamer and collodi. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 Jack Daw's "Upgrades" are Curses and are counted separately from the total maximum of upgrades your model can normally carry (otherwise it would be impossible to put them on minions :P). You can always pay 2 AP for the "Penance" action and turn an upgrade around so it does not work anymore, although this often loses you a whole activation (or 2/3 of it with your Masters). You are playing two Master-centric crews, so it's no surprise if he throws all his upgrades on your Master to shut it down. My only game against Jack Daw was with Lucius in a minion-heavy list. When he put some Curses on Lucius I had to choose to take damage to function. His crew was mostly Tormented so they kept pushing at the start of their activation and evaded the traps my two Guild Pathfinders laid (my other very important model in the crew). Almost totally countered. Against Jack Daw you have the chance learn something very useful - don't rely on your Masters for everything, even if they are the linchpin of your crew. You could try to include models that are threatening by themselves and will require some attention from your opponent as well. Big threats like Nekima, Teddy, etc. are quite fine in this regard. What's more, Jack Daw is a disruption Master and his focus on hindering you - to complete his goals he needs other models; identify and destroy those models. If you decide to get rid of Jack Daw himself try to do it with models that naturally have +attack or +damage (or both) and high low damage to make his life miserable quickly. Also, it's a bit niche solution, but if you know you are playing against Jacky you can simply bring Hans and shoot the Curses off your models. This way Jack is not getting them back, I think (just the same with McGabe and his gifted items). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killersox Posted March 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 That is a very good point with Hans. I never thought about doing that. Thanks for putting so much thought into your reply. I do need to learn to not rely on my master so much. It's much harder to do with dreamer. He basically is the only reason his crew works. If I do happen to get chompy on Jack he dies pretty quick. With collodi I think it will be up to coryphee. If I shoot an upgrade off with Hans (which is also very hard to do) does the upgrade get discarded or just go back to Jack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 I believe the upgrade goes away as it is discarded by external means and not due to Jack's mechanics. If I am wrong, I will write again to correct myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 11 minutes ago, Eclipse said: I believe the upgrade goes away as it is discarded by external means and not due to Jack's mechanics. If I am wrong, I will write again to correct myself. Jack can only get the upgrades back if he's the one discarding them or the model dies. Hans or Hoffman can thus destroy them permanently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxypoo Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 I play Jack (and most of the Neverborn masters) frequently, and Jack's odd in that he has a mostly passive way of forcing the opponent to react to him. Most masters who can quickly put the opponent on the back foot are very aggressive, but Jack forces this reaction by setting up a series of crappy choices for the opponent to choose from. His main and most obvious mechanic to do this are his Curses, but other combinations Jack crews favor, such as Jaakuna Ubume+The Drowned can do a similar thing. Playing against Jack is an exercise in repeatedly choosing the lesser of two evils. You have to turn the table on Jack and force him to be the reactive one so he can't set up the overlapping fields of poor choices. In my experience, the best way to beat Jack is twofold. First, have multiple redundancies built into your crew. One high damage melee model can be shut down by Firing Squad Injustice, but it's more difficult for Jack to stop two. Same goes for scheme runners. Secondly, Jack is often the linchpin of his crew, so if he overextends or wanders into a dangerous area, take the opportunity to kill or seriously wound him. This is especially true in a more-or-less themed crew, but I've dabbled with some mercenary heavy lists that are less dependent on Jack. As an honorable mention: if you suspect Lady Liega, bring Iggy. Our friendly childhood pyromaniac is a cheap and effective way to deal with Liega in a mostly melee faction. The inability to cheat near Liega makes her nearly immune to anything but the most focused (pun!) melee assaults. Eclipse gave some very good advice too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 While we are on this topic can someone explain the Jack Daw Mechanic regarding turning the card over and attaching it? "Penance" I think? Do they lose the upgrade or ?! I skimmed the crossroads the other day and forgot to go back to read it again as I was a bit baffled about how that mechanic worked in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxypoo Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 8 hours ago, Carter said: While we are on this topic can someone explain the Jack Daw Mechanic regarding turning the card over and attaching it? "Penance" I think? Do they lose the upgrade or ?! I skimmed the crossroads the other day and forgot to go back to read it again as I was a bit baffled about how that mechanic worked in game. Here's how it works. A model with a face-up Cursed upgrade can take a (2) tactical action called Penance and discard a card to flip the Curse upgrade face down. While face down, the upgrade has no effect. At the start of his activation, Jack can discard a card to remove one of his Curses and reattach it to himself face down. He can then reapply the Curse with a trigger from either of his attacks on his base card. If a model uses Penance to flip the upgrade face down, the Cursed upgrade stays on the model until Jack takes it back. However, there's no way to flip the upgrade face up again once Penance is used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Take "Model B" - As moxypoo said, Curse can shut down an high-cost model. So Two models may be better than Stronger one against Jack Daw. Keep Jack Daw away from your "important" models. - Jack daw give "curses" by only his own attacks. So he may come to use it... Don't activate "Cursed" Model before Jack Daw - If you do, Jack daw will reattach curse and give it to your non-activated model. Kill Opponents first. - Though Jack Daw looks like Ressers, but he can't summon. So if your crew is more killy, Attrition may be not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 On 3/5/2016 at 4:14 PM, moxypoo said: Here's how it works. A model with a face-up Cursed upgrade can take a (2) tactical action called Penance and discard a card to flip the Curse upgrade face down. While face down, the upgrade has no effect. At the start of his activation, Jack can discard a card to remove one of his Curses and reattach it to himself face down. He can then reapply the Curse with a trigger from either of his attacks on his base card. If a model uses Penance to flip the upgrade face down, the Cursed upgrade stays on the model until Jack takes it back. However, there's no way to flip the upgrade face up again once Penance is used. Don't forget that Jack has a trigger on his attack which re-attached his Cursed upgrade to himself (and damaging target model for further 2 damage). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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