Easy fix for Vantage Points with Walls or Railings

[Sannop]

We have been using the wonderful plast craft terrain for Malifaux. The terrain includes many vantage points with railings.  Therefore you have a Ht 3 vantage point with a Ht 1 railing.  This can be tough to handle.  I love the simplicity of the game versus true eye level LOS, and wanted a quick easy answer.  

Pin this we are assuming blocking railings/walls not simple see through railings.  

If this is covered in the rules I haven't found it.  There are interpretations and I welcome your thoughts, but this is a quick easy fix:

We take the HT of the wall away from the Ht of the figure and that is the Ht the model must be from the ledge.

Example (Ht 3 terrain with Ht 1 wall):

Ht 2 model must now be within 1 inch of the railing.  That simple (if this is already answered somewhere and I missed it, I apologize). 

Ht 1 model must be range 0. Therefore they can't see over.  

This still doesn't answer the shadow aspect that some games have.... But that is for another post. 

[solkan]

Huh?  There appears to be a proposed rule change here, but there doesn't appear to be any explanation for what particular problem it's trying to solve.

 

[Sannop]

Sorry, I thought the issue was clear.  How to handle a vantage point with a wall on the edge of the vantage point.  The rules only show the vantage point without any wall.  

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2015 by Sannop
grammar

[Hagisman]

So your problem is that the Ht of the structure and the Ht of the Railing/Wall are not taken into account?

• So you have the issue of the Structure is technically Ht4 with a Ht1 Railing/Wall, there are multiple ways to look at this. All of this is in the Defining and place terrain section of the rulebook, but falls under the complex terrain rules that you and your opponent define:
  • Height of the Structure is considered Ht4, the Ht of the Railing is considered Ht5.
    • There is nothing that states that Ht value of a model is changed based on how tall a vantage point is.(Correct me if I am wrong I couldn't find anything in my 5min skim of the rules for Height). So technically if you had a Ht2 model on a perch behind a Ht5 piece of terrain while standing on a Ht 4 vantage point he could not see over it as his height is 2 where as the terrain is 5. This is impossible/Not useful at all for anyone.
  • Height of the Vantage Point is considered Ht4, the Cover is considered Ht1, but just so happens to be on Ht4 terrain.
    • This has its own problems. Ht2 model has to be within 2 inches of the ledge to shoot over it. You have to be within 1 inch of terrain to get cover. Therefore if you are within 2 of the ledge, but outside of 1 inch of the cover you do not benefit from cover. This is passable.
  • Height of the Vantage Point Ht5 and consider the Cover as part of the Vantage point.
    • This means that a model on top of say a Ht5 Vantage Point is always considered in Cover as he is always within 1 inch of cover. This will cause confusion as no matter where your model is it will be getting cover so long as it stays on the top of the terrain. As an added benefit Vantage Points without railings will also get cover unless attacked from a model on a piece of terrain the same height.  This is probably a good way to deal with the cover issue.

Confusion has been reached and I need some Advil and a stiff drink to recoupe.

[Sannop]

 

Thanks for the input Hagisman.  I don't think that there is a direct rule about this.

Per the rules I think that we would just ignore the wall completely and only use it for cover versus people on the same "level" or HT.

I have attached a picture to show what we use.  

Normally, without the railing, the Marshall would be on Ht2 Vantage point and have to be within 2 inches of the ledge since he is Ht2.  

But with a Ht 1 railing(wall) it possibly changes things. Yes the rules can still be played the same and the wall can be ignored for vantage, but I like the following.  It is easy and works for the system.

Take the Ht 1 wall away from his Ht 2 model size.  Now he is effectively Ht1 above the wall and he now needs to be 1 inch from the ledge.  

If it were a Ht 3 model with a Ht 1 wall... his effective size is Ht 2 and he needs to be 2 inches removed.

This has a Ht 1 model being effective Ht 0 and not able to use the vantage point since they can't see over the wall.

The rules don't discuss vantage in much detail at all, and maybe the simple rules play the best.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2015 by Sannop
Added info

[amanwing]

This sounds like a good fix. Maybe it should be in the rules that way.