Miniature game design question

[Nicodemic]

I wanted to ask people who have experience in miniature design how they go about giving a value to a model for crew creation, and was curious what methods there may be to go about this. Is it an intuitive thing or do you figure out a way to add cost for every extra stat point or ability or something of that nature?

 

And a second question is what do you believe is the best way to start, when starting from nothing do you just throw some numbers down that are what your thinking a unit will have to start and go from there or whats the general way you go about it.

[volt_ron]

While I'm no game designer, I do know that the best what to approach costing things is to approach it in the context of other models in a faction rather than 1:1 across all models. Or rather, take a holistic view.

What I mean by this is, let's say two models both have the same ability, let's call it Smoison because why not. You wouldn't want to say that Smoison is worth a flat 1 point across the board, because what if one of those model's faction is based entirely around using Smoison? Maybe it would cost less because it's a required ability or just one that is fairly common in that faction.  Maybe it's more because the other models in that faction can crank the Smoison up to 11.

[Justin]

The best way is to compare it to other existing models. Once you design a model ask, "Would I hire this over model X which has the same cost?"

I've seen lots of people argue for some sort of formula or specific cost breakdown, but there are so many variables in miniatures games it is my opinion this is impossible. It can be done to an extent with pure stats. But what is the value in points of an Ability that only ever appears on one model and whose value can change depending on the nature of the board (Drowning In Her Wake on Jaakuna Ubume as an example). What is the value of common Abilities like Hard to Wound, even?

This is why testing is so key. Test, test, test and see what people are taking, and why. Watch games and read reports to see how your new model stacks up against others of the same cost.

Starting from scratch is harder. To do that you want to design two crews which establish a baseline. This means that the value of a single point is, essentially, arbitrary. But it's also irrelevant, as points only have value in relation to other models. So while the starting point may be arbitrary, consistency is what maintains balance.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Justin

[Dogmantra]

n.b. I am not a minis game designer, but I am an amateur board game designer and have read a lot about design, and what I say should be applicable

Pricing things correctly is mostly a matter of playtesting over and over and over and seeing what happens.

But a vague idea of roughly how much things are worth can never hurt. Don't map it out with an entire list like "Every two inches of walk is 1 point, an attack that does 3 damage is 1 point", but just thinking "ok, average move is X, this model has X+3 so it's more expensive" is good. A lot of designers like to whip together a playable prototype very early and just run through the game on their own playing both sides. This will tell you if you've over or under priced something by a large margin, and should give you a bit more of a feel of how it flows and what sort of basic things are more useful in your system.

And context is very important, as mentioned before. Opportunity cost is often more important than actual point cost. For example, my favourite game is called Puzzle Strike. It's a deckbuilder where you're buying new chips to add to your deck every turn. An interesting phenomenon in this game is that 1-3 cost chips scale roughly linearly in power, and then suddenly 4 cost chips are a huge step up from 3 cost. The reason for this is because Combine, a super important chip that you (99.9% of the time) need a few of to win the game, also costs 4, and so even though your $4 chips only cost 1 more than your $3, the "real" cost is that you're not buying a Combine. It might not be the right approach for your minis game, but if you have a "core" unit that you think has a fair price the question you need to ask for every other model with that price point is "why would I want this over the core unit?" If there are too few answers to that question, you've made it too expensive. If there are too many, it's too cheap.

Another piece of wisdom from Puzzle Strike that may or may not apply is having a little generic buff to shore up a slightly underpriced model. A game like Malifaux has quite low point costs and so sometimes there is unbalance at certain price points that can't be fixed by shifting their price (e.g. many people think Freikorpsmänner are too weak for 5ss but too strong for 4). Puzzle Strike has an interesting little icon called the Pig. It has a really cool mechanic that gives you a little extra boost behind it, but on its own, one pig is not super impactful. The designer has actually said that he has given it to certain chips he believed were at the right price but just a little less powerful than they should be, to make them slightly more enticing. For a minis game, you have a lot more axes to work along than Puzzle Strike, so your generic buff might be an extra inch of movement, or something like hard to wound, but it's worth thinking about.

[Omenbringer]

I agree with Dogmantra. Start with a base list of costs for abilities and a base line for stats. Modifications up or down should effect the initial model costs. Not all abilities are equal (Armor or Damage reduction may be more valuable than a Defense bonus for instance) and will effect things differently, so should cost differently. Once the base line is there then play testing can modify it up or down and fine tune everything (a model that already has a High Defense may receive a much larger benefit than another model with only average defense utilize the same ability to increase defense). Having a clearly defined and established base line, provides you with a consistent starting point across multiple models/ factions/ whatever and will aid with future design.

As for play testing things, especially, at the "Alpha" stage, be sure to vet your players. Power gamers can break a system/model quicker than newer ones and allow you to patch things before they get published (when it is easy and virtually free to do).

[Nicodemic]

Super awesome, thank you all for your responses.