Condition Removal...

[madaxeman]

...seems to be a really useful trick, but I'm struggling to find any models that have it and fit in an Arcanist (Ramos, Mei) crew.

I'm kinda stuck with squeezing in a mercenary Johan, but he feels like a poor-mans Kang, or a very poor mans Joss...and an expensive one at that. But otherwise conditions just get stuck on my crew.

Thoughts?

[rythos42]

You have exactly two options here. (1) Arcane Effigy, (2) Johan.

 

Arcane Effigy is 4ss, with decent defense and is a construct, which is exactly what Mei wants in life. Ramos too, although if Ramos is using this guy, the Effigy is no longer useful.  Johan is 6ss (7...), with decent defense, and a ton of awesome things. Plus flips in the right area, a 3/4/5 (1) attack, condition removal, healing.

 

 

Now we get into the anecdotal stuff. I play Mei, and less often I play Ramos, and I've been ramping up on Kaeris.

 

Mei: Johan is good, but doesn't usually have enough synergy to justify taking with Mei. I don't take enough M&SU models for the heal, and at 7ss, I want that heal. Arcane Effigy...has decent synergy with Mei, but I struggle to use him. If he isn't removing conditions, he isn't doing much else, and that bugs the hell out of me. He has a 7" effective range with the CR, which I don't find far enough to let him fill the role I tend to take 4ss models in. At the same time, if the strategy is for clumping, he doesn't need that much range. Mei also likes constructs that go forward, and this dude should be nearer the back to maintain his usefulness for the entire game. Either way, with Mei, I find it hard to justify either option, even if I'm playing against McMourning like I usually do.

 

Ramos/Kaeris: Johan has awesome synergy with most things Ramos and Kaeris want to bring, with their abundance of M&SU models. I have no problem using Johan as a back-field support model for 7ss. Because I know, that as things start winding down and the threats are less powerful, Johan can get in there and knock people around. I tend to take Imbued Energies, to make sure that if I need a walk/heal, I can do it. Arcane Effigy I find less useful with Ramos because I tend to be playing support with him so he doesn't need the Burning, and he doesn't need a 4ss follower because he makes his own. I could see the Effigy being useful for Kaeris, but haven't tried it...because Johan is so good at what s/he does.

[AnythingBut]

Agreed on the value if Johan in a Ramos crew. 7ss is an absolute steal with all the M&SU synergy. Even with just Ramos, joss and the spiders there is more than enough to make use of all his abilities, add Howard and metal gamin and I can't imagine a better crew in game for Johan to fit into.

He has a relic hammer which comes with the usual double positive flip against constructs and a min damage of 3. Also has flurry and gets positive flips to attack when near another M&SU, he loves to be near joss and with spiders all over the place it should be almost trivial to make sure he gets this bonus.

Then there's Hard to kill with a bubble heal which will effect most if not all of your crew.

Then there's the main reason for taking him most of the time, condition removal! I have no problem taking Johan in raspy or Marcus crews, 7ss for H2K, min damage 3 and condition removal is great, add in the other synergies and there's a case to say he's broken in a Ramos crew.

Like Rythos has said I also often take imbued energies on him, for two main reasons. Firstly as was pointed out the ability to walk and then bubble heal for 2ap can often be a life saver, especially in turf war or reckoning. Then there's the threat of walk and flurry. With a 3" reach people will not expect the damage he can put out. Minimum of 9 damage (and assuming you have the positive flips to attack and a couple of cards to cheat in if needed it's not as difficult as it might be for some) to any model within 8" who more than likely wont have a 3" reach themselves and so need to walk if they want to take even 1 swing back at him!

As you can probably tell I'm a big big Johan fan, and with Ramos hes often one of the first names written down (after joss ) for most stratergies.

[madaxeman]

OK - I;d have thought that you can get quite a lot of MS&U with Mei - Metal Gamin, Rail Golem, Howard, Joss... however it still seems like a lot of points.

 

I'd been thinking of a very killy Mei crew with 2 beatsticks (pick 2 out of Joss/Rail Golem/Howard) - fitting in a 7SS Johan as well doesn't leave many SS for anything else to support them though... 

 

With the synergies is he a realistic proposition to use as one of the 2 beatsticks as well?

 

Or is it just about accepting a small crew?

[AnythingBut]

As is often the answer in Malifaux - it depends on your strat and scheme pool. 

 

Playing reccon or squatters right? or just have a pool full of 5 scheem marker based schemes? maybe not ideal to take Joss, howard and Johan all in the same crew. you need the numbers to do the objectives efficiently. 

 

Playing Reckoning with a choice of killy schemes? I would say a small elite crew consisting of those three models as a core would be a great place to start. You arnt going to be giving away many strat points and have plenty of killy models to get them yourself. 

 

 

Generally speaking Ramos can get away with smaller elite crews in many more situations than Mei as with his summons he can soon be out activating the opposing crew even if he only starts with 6 or 7 models. If you have your heart set on playing with 2 beatsticks most games I would try and see if you can get to grips with Ramos first and formost.

 

If you have your heart set on playing mei, I would rarely consider all three of the models mentioned except in reckoning as mentioned. 

[Sybarite]

Arcane effigy is great with mei. Construct, wk5, companion, condition removal and me loves arcane radiance. If you don't have a master that has a lot of benefit from Arcane Radiance I would much rather take Johan/a though. Johan/a is really good.