Pandora's Fading Memory and Incite Trigger

[jonahmaul]

Hey guys, had this situation come up in a game tonight and not sure if we played it correctly,

Fading Memory allows Pandora to push immediately after she wins a Wp duel. Incite has a trigger that allows her to take the action again. But how do these two interact? As per general timing triggers go before abilities but does the immediately override this? It was quite important in our game as if she pushed before doing the second Incite it moved her into LOS of one of my miniatures that she couldn't otherwise see. And if she succeeds with both Incite's then would the two pushes stack? We thought there were three possible solutions but weren't sure which is correct:

1. She gets to Trigger and if the second attack is successful then does a single push

2. She pushes immediately then does the trigger, pushing again if successful

3. She does the trigger action first and then pushes either 4" or 8" depending whether the second Incite was successful (in our case it was).

1 just feels wrong as cuddles her so we discounted that but weren't sure whether 2 or 3 is correct. We went with three in the end and allowed her to push 8" as Incite was successful twice. Were we correct?

[DocSchlock]

Fading memory is "when this model wins a Wp duel" not "After succeeding," (which means after winning and after resolving the effects) so you push first, then resolve Incite, then resolve the Incite trigger, potentially pushing again if you win the duel.

So it would be option 2, but not because of the "immediately" but because those two effects have different timings.

"After succeeding" is explicitly defined in the rules, while "wins a Wp duel" is plain English. Fading Memory occurs right after checking to see who won the duel itself, as long as Pandora won.

[jonahmaul]

OK, that makes sense and thematically it would seem more sensible.  However, the abstract rules in Malifaux mean sometimes things don't always make sense.  And Fading Memory is an Ability which according to the timings in the rules should go after Triggers.  So why in this instance does an Ability get to go before a Trigger?  Not deliberately arguing the point but playing Devil's Advocate because it makes more sense that she would get to push after each one but there is nothing in the rules or FAQ that supports this that I can see (i.e. what are we missing?).

[Bengt]

You only check the priority box when talents say they happen at the same time, e.g. if both say "after".

[jonahmaul]

OK, so if I've got it correct then Fading Memory happens when Pandora successfully wins a Wp duel (immediately as it's in the wording) and that takes priority over the Trigger because that happens 'after succeeding', with the Push part being part of the initial success?

[DocSchlock]

"After succeeding" is a game defined term meaning "after you apply the results of the action and as long as you succeeded."

Pg 26 small rulebook

The Ability doesn't go off at the same time as the Trigger, so the timing box doesn't matter here at all. You only care about the  Ability / Trigger interaction rules if they both actually go off at the same time, which is not the case here.

Declare Action
Spend AP
Both parties flip
Both parties may cheat
Both parties declare triggers
Check Success
<Fading Memory here if you won>
Results of the Action
Finish applying results of the Action
<Incite Trigger here>
<do another incite>

<resolve other incite>

<resolve original action>

[jonahmaul]

Thanks very much both.