Ogid

3 minutes ago, Adran said:

Whilst under obey you don't change friendly and enemy. But during the interact action you are being controlled by the model with Obey, which might be a different crew to you. You are still subject to things like not being able to interact because you are engaged with an enemy model. So based on the rules on page 28 the marker dropped is friendly to the model with obey.

Exclusive interview does things a little differently. By making the model friendly to you, it means that you can declare the interact action even whilst engaged by your models (although not while engaged by models from their own crew). Considering its a short ranged aura, that is a pretty useful alteration. So it still makes sense to have different wording

I don't agree with these, the rules of the pg26 is talking specifically about controlled models and goes against that reading, so those rules could be nuancing the pg 28 rules (general rules aobut markers); however it could be the other way around. I can see the problem, these 2 rules seem to contradict each other.

In the other hand, if the controled model dropped a scheme marker friendly to the creed controling him, then the bolded part of Exclusive Interview would be redundant (see below). The friendly part isn't there to disengage the enemy and make the interact action legal; the Journalist abilities that force the other model to interact specify that the enemy model may take the interact action even if engaged (and some of them doesn't have a mele attack and can't engage the enemy models anyway),  just saying the action is controled by this model would be enough to force a friendly scheme marker drop.

Quote

Exclusive Interview
When an enemy model within 2 takes the Interact Action, it is treated as a friendly model and the Action is controlled by this model.

I don't know, maybe the interact action while being controled changed during the beta but some old rules remained... If that's the case then the overlooked rule is more probably the pg28 one than the 26 plus an ability printed in a lot of cards (Exclusive Interivew). But considering the wording of the pg28, a FAQ about it would be welcome.

14 hours ago, mattbird said:

8. Misaki / Blossoms: The killy master who cannot kill. The killy henchmen who with 2AP. What's the point of these again? 

I've played a bit of last blossom and I think that statement is underselling them.

Misaki can hit almost any point of the table if played right; she can be destroying an scheme runner in one corner of the map one turn and the next one appear and help in a fight for the control of the middle point. Charge throught plus an stat 7 means she can hit very reliabily for maximum damage (which could be 7) once per turn (if she is versus hard to hit models, she would need to spend a focus for that tho). Versus clumped enemies without damage reduction Lightining strike is amazing, in the ideal conditions it could deal 12 damage to each enemy in range (realistically 6-8). Note that even without armor she has extended reach and mobile warrior; attacking her in mele is very ineficient for a lot of models.

Ototo is a bit slow but hits like a truck (kind of like Misaki, but with stat 6 so not that reliable) and can gain fast after a kill. If misaki is near, the Oyabun's command could be used to get an extra attack with him and trigger "Charge through" a second time. Plus Masked Agent may help him to get where he should be. And he can deliver a lot of Slow.

That keyword has also good scheme abilities and scheme runners, good shooters, lots of range 2 meles with extended reach and Minako, who can summon Katashiros out of shadow markers. And TT in general has some versatiles that will help to round the creed (Samurai/Fuhatsu, Tanukis, Lone swordman, terracota...). Misako may be used as a killy master, but she has also the mobility to play outmanouver the other team and go for scheme markers.

I'm not saying they are god tier or easy to use, but I don't think LastBlossom is a bad keyword.

13 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

I'm curious what other reading "the crew controlling the model" can mean to you?

But the rules cover this interaction explicitly as cited previously:

Quote

Regardless of control the model does not change which models it considers friendly and which it considers an enemy. Control changes who makes the decisions; it does not change the Crew to which the model belongs.

The controlling player makes all the choices, that's all. The model is still an enemy model, the controlled model cannot use an ability with the "enemy only" to his own crew for example. When he interacts, it's exactly as if he were interacting without being controled.

The Journalist ability makes this very clear, if this didn't work like we are saying, the "Exclusive Interview" ability wouldn't have any sense.

I think it's as @Vangerdahast is saying.

The controled model is still friendly and belongs to his crew, so the scheme marker is theirs. To see this more clear, check the Journalist keyword ability "exclusive interview". Journalist forces the enemy models to interact; that rule wouldn't had sense if the markers that a controled model drop belonged to the enemy crew in the first place.

Quote

Exclusive Interview
When an enemy model within 2 takes the Interact Action, it is treated as a friendly model and the Action is controlled by this model.

1 hour ago, Thedeadclaw said:

I don't have a lot of the Qi and Gong keyword yet and really like the puppet mechanics, which is why I haven't aggresively purchased them. I love the Qi and Gong crew, but I'll be rounding out a lot of the ones I already have and waiting for all of its models to be released for 3E before I play with mix and matching them. I expect that Hinamatsu is still oing to mostly take puppets for me even then though, since Youko is just a better leader for Qi and Gong, so outside of tournaments I can't see wanting the Emissary silver bullet badly enough to not take Youko insyesd in casual play. I also prefer to have all constructs so that Vasilisa and Widow Weaver can replace dead models.

I understand, It's all about playstyles.

When I have the models to play Hinamatsu, I'll probably try including at least 1 Kunoichi for schemes far away of the other models/defense... Kunoichis has to be great with Youko handling a lot of Distracted so they can charge in for a 4/5/6 attack, plus Trained Ninja really fit her.

However in a Hinamatsu creed I really think she will be great in a flanking duty taking advantage of the No Witnessess trigger (3/4/5 attack ignoring armor). She isn't as fast as a Bunraku, but versus an isolated targets she can be much more dangerous. In the durability department they are probably tied, Bullet proof + Disguised + Nihilism isn't bad at all. Plus in turn 1 she can give 2 focused with Galvanize in exange for some chip damage that Vasilissa may heal with her free action; and tools for the job is an amazing extra on top of that.

And if there isn't much shooty potential in the other team 1 Geisha could be also a good adition, that leverage and Lure for 4 points seems great to me.

1 hour ago, Thedeadclaw said:

Widow Weaver is a bomb too. She's definitely the control master to Hinamatsu's aggro for puppets. Keep in mind she counts as a puppet for hiring, so you're rarely bringing her for the nightmares, although I could see her maybe taking Teddy under certain circumstances. Really the point of her as your leader would be to 1) reinforce Vasilisa against a shooty crew by doubling your possible summons and 2) control the board with web markers and the threat of poison along with her push. Teddy can help you get stuffing but so can the stitched together. It's a list where I'd probably switch the ratio of Bunraku to Stitched and drop the Coryphee altogether if I thought that would be a problem. But I haven't played as much with Widow yet, so that's all the insight I really have there. She's best against crews you need to keep pushed back or crews you can't get close enough to control.

You have more experience than me so I'll take your word here and give her a shot, but I have to admit that I had ruled her out as a viable leader on paper...

She is fast and can do some shenanigans with placements, terrorize and webs, but she is also quite squishy (any decent beater jumping in his face or any decent shooting crew can easily destroy her). Plus it's hard not to take also a Bandersnatch to set up some extra webs so you can take full advantage of her mobility, and some nightmare muscle to help her get stuffing (a teddy or some stiched would synergize better with the rest) and probably a few daydreams for lucid dreams, that's a lot of SS before starting with the puppets... and the duo Vasilissa/WW is still avaliable to the Dreamer.

Rules lawyering at its finest lol.

Considering the step C is called "Activation" and C(1) "Start activation"... it's hard to argue that a model that has been activated and is taking actions haden't been activated yet... 

Ty for the insight @Thedeadclaw! It's good to know this leader can work 👌

I'm curious tho. Do you rather 2 coryphees instead of a Duet? The duet hits harder, has more defense, give you an extra activation without giving the other team a pass token, and can have 4 (or even 6!) APs each turn. And after Leverage kicks in, it could be activated after the enemy ends all his activations

Have you tried any lists with Geishas or Kunoichis? Leverage, as you said, is game changing and Tools for the job is great to fish high cards in the discard pile.

2 hours ago, Thedeadclaw said:

I also haven't touched on Widow Weaver puppets at all, which is also a thing, but fills in a lot of the gaps Hinamatsu puppets has.

Is she a legit leader? For the Nightmare keyword the dreamer is amazing, I'm not sure if it's worth trading him and LCB for a coryphee duet...

I guess you'll have to try them to know.

Their stats are average, their call or the wild don't have the charge trigger, and lack the mobility and tricks of other beast, however they have their advantages:

• "Aspect of the Wild" means you will draw 1 card per activation (as long as they stay near of Marcus), plus they can feed their own Adaptive Evolution if needed.
• Their damage could be 3/4/5 or 4/5/6 in the right scenario (!)
• Stampede is a nice extra chip damage.
• They are beast (so Marcus may use protected and command them)

If you feel you lack card draw, need some cheap muscle near of Marcus, plan to bubble or are against someone who will attack your hand, 1 or even 2 may be worth a shot.

40 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

Doc Mitchel is his prisoner.

Which is probably one of the worst ideas ever... The stress of being a prissioner could make him make some mistakes... like "sterilize" his instrumental with horseshit.

Or he can put a little ammount of "that" sustance in his medicine; not enough to kill him or even notice it, but more than enough to make him slower than his enemies...

I kind of feel there is some story behind this ability I'm missing...

Why is Parker against armed doctors?

10 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I haven't tested it.

But I was thinking about it recently. It is probably only good if there is a synergy between a Neverborn and Qi Gong model that you couldn't obtain through any master.

There are a a lot of good stuff, these 2 keywords give access to a bunch of high cost/efficient models:

• Geisha: Cheapest stat 6 lure (which can also give focused to an ally) and Leverage; thanks to Distraction her own attack "Sharp Wit" isn't useless, paper made tho.
• Coryphee Duet: 4 actions/turn (or 6 if you give it fast), this can be an insane beater or a very fast scheme runner.
• Mannequin: Put them near of the Coryphee or in groups of 2 or 3 and see how they cross the entire table thanks to Mechanical assisstant without expending AP (plus they have take the hit)
• Bunraku: The budget scheme runner, Risky maneouver for a push, 2 actions and a focus.
• Kunoichis: Jack of all trades, some good support abilities (Leverage, tools for the job,  Galvanize and I've got your back, ), some defensive and some combat capabilities in Unexpected Ferocity (this is much better in TT tho) and No Witnessess... for 6 points.
• Charm Warder: Situational, but versus summoners (Exorcism) or powerful demise abilities is worth it.
• Styched: Better in Nightmare, but still useful (plus they can be summoned by Vasilisa)
• Any of the Emissaries of fate in turn 3+
• ...

All of these plus the ability to make a TTish creed or a full puppet one with high defense and armor (and Vasilisa handling staggered to everyone). Leverage is a very powerful ability, even including 2 or 3 would give that creed a lot of activation control. 

The lack of a Master is the only thing that make me think twice.

6 hours ago, Thedeadclaw said:

It's incredible just with puppets. I probably would only use it for Qi and Gong if you wanted to play mind games with your opponents by playing a 10T crew after declaring Neverborn. But Puppets are a highly competetive keyword on their own this edition and Hinamatsu is the best leader for it in a competetive setting since Collodi generally isn't allowed. 

Hinamatsu REALLY benefits from her extra action too. I've been meaning Hinamatsu puppets this edition and it's very strong.

This is interesting. Which list do you usually play with her and into which creeds/strategy/schemes?

Someone has experience with Hinamatsu as a Leader? She having the Qi and Gong plus the Puppet keyword give access to a ton of models.

Both keywords give access to the Qi and Gong tools (Leverage, Geishas, Kunoichis, Kabuki, Bill, Charm Warder...) while also giving access to Puppets (Armor, Corphee duet, Styches, Mannequins, Bunraku, Widow Weaver...); puppets also give access to Effigies, so this creed could have access to any of the 7 emissaries thanks to Effigy of Fate upgrade.

Hinamatsu with 2 armor, stat 6, flurry and onslaught could be a decent beater; and she also has some tricks with Lure and the AoE Distracted... but even with 2 armor she isn't at the level of a true Master imo.

I really like some of the models these 2 keyword give access, the duet or Kunoichis seems quite good for example; but the lack of a true master make me dobut about how viable this could be... Is this creed worth it?

Ty in advance!

Interesting answers... this game is more generous than I thought with the buried ones!

I assumed the model had to be able to fulfill the condition to unbury; but if the model can't be placed, then it can be placed in the deployment zone. In the Misaki's example, only 1 shadow marker remaining but surrounded by impassable terrain and other models.

Good to know!

That happens if the model try to unbury but can't for reasons, without any ability/action that let her unbury she have to remain buried (and die at the end of the game)

However I woudn't be worried for Misaki; her shadows stay turn after turn (so in turn 5 she should have some scattered, even if in bad places), other members of her creed like Ototo or the Torakages may create new shadows in a pinch and shang (her totem) is another option. It's highly unlikely that she runs out of options to unbury.

1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said:

No it doesn't. If it has any stipulation of naming a model it is listing a model by name. Doppleganger can't copy Dreamer's summon and do it better than he can.

Ok, The Dreamer's example makes sense, that would be quite broken...

A glossary of termns would be so welcome... I totaly thought "list by name" = ability must have written the name of a model (like "Your  Nightmare" with the trigger "Nightstalker")

1 hour ago, hippopacalypse said:

Killjoy can't be brought in with mold of the other. His demise ability heals and buries him so he doesn't really get killed unless the opponent ignores demise.

True lol, he is buried even when there is no more blood sacrifices... Niche use versus "Lantern of Souls"? 😅

2 hours ago, stonegiant said:

and wouldnt Mold name a model?

It's "list a model by name" (the name of a model has to be written).

Doppleganger could copy "Mold of the others", but I'm not sure if it's worth it... she cannot use SS, so it's not that easy to pull it of (you will have to hold a valuable card in hand for long):

• Autum: 10+ of masks (5/54 cards)
• Rougarou: 11+ of masks (4/54 cards)
• Killjoy: 13 of masks (2/54 cards)

But with only Lure plus Mimic to copy Decay/Massive Cleaver, she could be a good model to include...

I'm not 100% sure if this would be legal, but the only way to do it with the  Changelings would be making the Doppleganger mimic "Mold of the others" and then the Changelings use "Just Like You" to copy Doppleganger's version; but that would be a suitless stat 5 ability (so a 12M+ for an Autum or a 13M/RJ for a Rougarou), plus having the 3 models in range and the Changeling costing 5 for being OOK (so "saving" only 2-3SS)... hardly worth it. 

I guess that at least spamming Germinate with the Changelings would be an option (copying Titania's), but for 1 SS more Waldgeist could be included to do the same without having to be attached to the leader.

Yep, I got those wrong XD. I wrote from memory and mixed it with "the undying pack" which mixes TT and RES.

...And that's why it's important to always double check! 😉

Thanks for the detailed answer @Kharnage. I'm starting NVB with Dreamer/Pandy, but I'd probably get nekima eventualy.

That rushy style is something I like of this creed. However as a Dreamer player, creeds with some ability to grow is something I like. When rushing isn't that necessary, do you think that a grow strategy like the following would be viable?

Include Candy OOK. Turn 1 Generate 4 corpses with the Pig, Hayedin and the 2 Shamans (3 masks needed); Nekima Hurl Corpse with Fast Food trigger to grow 2 matures in turn 1 (2 Rams needed). At this point the Nephillim player gets 2 matures, 2 focus (1 in Matures);  Candy heals both matures and give 1 or 2 Fasts if crows triggers. Everyone can advance with 1 action (matures with 2 actions thanks to fast).

This first turn is a bit slower and quite hand intensive; but at the start of the second turn, the Nephilim player could have 2 matures with 7-10 life (depending on fast and the heal gotten). And candy is an amazing model that can support with Heals, Fast or pull her weight in combat thanks to self-loathing; Matures or Nekima with Fast could be terrifying.

Np! But check everyting before buying.

What I wrote apply to the starter, the golem is changing his scuplt for example (and now is buyable without having to get RES stuff).

17 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

Ha! I’d pondered the exact same list – if only to get a chance to test all the woes out

I guess Iggy is a joke to you 😜

43 minutes ago, iCreed said:

Thanks for the input guys, im starting to look into the rules and list building. Going to wait until a store has the 3e Brewmaster box and I'll pick it up and go from there!

You're welcome!

Look around just in case some store is selling discounted M2e boxes, it won't work for all of them for different reasons tho (some models sold separately now share boxes in third edition, you could like more the new sculpts or the starters models change) so check well before buying anything from M2e.

But specifically for brewmaster, the M2e starter and M3e starters are the same (but cards); if you found one at 50%, second hand or something like that, it would be a good deal.

Hi, Welcome!

In a nutsell: This is a skirmish game, you gain points by completing schemes and strategies, the player with more points at the end of 5 turns win the game.

Important points: Both players take turns to activate models (it's not the typical "I move all my dudes, then I go for a beer while you move yours"), you make your list after knowing the schemes and strategies and the enemy leader (so having a few extra model to being able to adapt your list is necessary).

Being a newbie myself, what I did: 

• Read the rulebook, at least twice (you can download it from wyrd's webpage)
• Download all the M3e cards (again form wyrd's webpage), some are missing but the majority are there. In the wyrd's webpage you can check the creed members for each keyword (click in each master)
• If you are very interested in a creed with cards missing, this page can help: https://m3e-crew-builder.herokuapp.com/
• Put all stat cards (but deadhand and special edition cards) in one folder. Use the each master's keyword as a filter to get all model with said keyword (you can copy them into a new folder or just browse them); check all keywords and see which ones fit you better (both aestesically and mechanically). Take this step easy, depending on your free time it can take days or weeks.
• Choose your master and spend a few bucks getting the core box + 1 or 2 boxes to get some options. Get the one you like the most, but be sure you also like the faction because you will probably get at least 1 or 2 extra masters from that faction to have some flexibility.

If there is some people around your area playing Malifaux, it won't be a bad idea to ask them to make an introductory game.

Here you have my own newbie thread:

Hope it helps!

2 hours ago, 11Anthonyc said:

That's what most of us who play Perdita were hoping for when it came to her "Finger on the Trigger" action

Combine that with the misinterpreted "Gunfighter" ability, and people (including myself) happily believed that Perdita could shoot at those who had the gall to charge her and stop them in their tracks.

Yep, Gunfighter doesn't allow  engaged. But being a  attack has its own advantages, the model can fight in a building shadow or into models with concealment aoe effects getting rid of those modifiers.

I agree with the more common opinion here; LJ stops demise(drop a marker). However it's not unreasonable to think she can't, so a quick FAQ about it won't hurt imo.

To help you better, could you you post the grow league rules and the Hardcore Henchman rules (summoning allowed? Free efigy?...).

Some quick thoughts:

• LCB as the leader would be the "safest", he will become a totem when Masters become avaliable so it won't condition your lists; plus he hit hard (but he lose a ton of mobility without the dreamer tho)
• WW as the leader would give you unpararell mobility (if you also include bandersnatch) and summoning shenanigans, so if you plan to play avoiding your adversary and focusing in schemes she isn't a bad choice.
• The carver is also good, but if picking him means he will be stuck in your team forever then choose him only if you really want him in your team; this leader would allow you to build towards Pandora instead of toward the dreamer (or towards a mixed crew Dreamer/Pandora)

So LCB would be the safest one.