extremor

7 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

For neurotoxins, I found them a bit unnecessary. I was killing models even through soulstones xD

For myranda damage wise, she has the exact same capabilities except has flay instead of adaptive evolution (when she is a Rougarou), but yeah maybe I should focus on her support role more. Oh, and she can't bonus for focus which sometimes comes up.

Yes I totally agree. @Ogid once convinced me that NVB Marcus is less about killing and more about spreading out, scoring and using the extreme mobility and flexibility. Before I focused on killing while building crews and playing. Since then my builds changed and the usage of Myranda changed. 
 

BUT: right now I think I know that Marcus is both: a master to be mobile and score easily and a master that can kill keypieces easily if set up correctly. I use different builds and don’t have a „Core“ because Marcus adapts to opponents faction, strat and schemes. I use to struggle vs rezzer a lot because of h2w and after I changed my playstyle and builds against them it got way easier. 
 

long story short: If Myranda works for you that way it’s great. If you get to the point where Marcus doesn’t perform well it may be time for a change of play. It ain’t cause Marcus sucks but because he has so many options and it is hard to choose the fitting one for opponents, strat, schemes. At least that’s what I think. But then again I haven’t played any tournaments with Marcus *sad*

9 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I'm not sure how necessary the scorpius was. It deleted a few models, but so could a few other options. That armor 2 did just offer a remarkably strong tank, though. So it did a fair bit of work between soaking hits and hitting things. Creep along for the extra AP is also very sweet.

Scorpius is also a very Good huntsman for henchmen and masters. His neurotoxin sometimes has huuuge impact. 
 

In my games Myranda rarely has the same role as cojo. To me her main purpose is enabling the killing strikes if the opponent leaves a Model exposed, healing my „anvil“, providing plusflips at the center and turn 4/5 turning into adze or groot to deny or score... cojo is a devastating damage dealer and thread. Cojo rarely survived a game while Myranda often survives a game. Or dies turn 5... But I guess that is Marcus - a very flexible master with lots of ways to be played...

I like OI since they are quite flexible and I always hire one. If I don’t need killing they can also use their call of the wild to safe Myranda or Marcus AP and move up the big ones like cojo, mauler, rougarou...the OI mostly stays in the middle of the board to act where needed.

as to all the 7-8ss minions: I consider em to be a Toolbox for strat and schemes and opponent. For several games I considered cojo, Myranda, one Cerberus one OI and one WotW my core... right now I am moving away from that and trying new ways. 

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Do you not find that your upgrades get 'stuck' a bit when you pop out 5-6 first turn?

Depends on the list. With OI, Myranda, Cerberus and cojo I was always using adaptive evolution and swap upgrades. 

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

seen this and will likely try it, but I find Initiates are a bit too squishy for a combat upgrade (if I send them running into danger, they'll die. I prefer to just keep dancing away from danger). But maybe I'm being too precious with them xD

Only on paper. With IR, wings and horns they charge quite hard and use adaptive evolution twice. afterwards may use his free action for armor if able. Otherwise scamper and butterfly jump keep em safe for a while and then comes Myranda. And after he kills a keypiece he may as well die...

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I've heard good things about Adze, so need to experiment with it more for sure.

2 hours ago, extremor said:

I have never actually hired him. Just a very nice tech to have Myranda transforming into...

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

and then 2 for Myranda.

Referring to her bonus action, right? Marcus can’t dubble chimerancy on a model. 

My mvp go to for Myranda is adze. With build in puncture, mv 7 and flight he is extremely mobile and opponents only can stop that by surrounding Myranda which is hard to accomplish and wasting AP so they are welcome... but I’ve also transformed into rougarou and groot as both are awesome pics in the right situation but have never considered IR on Myranda...

I really like to use groot a lot since he is mobile, tanky (with armor) has 2“ engagement and the opponent has to decide whether to commit models to lair markers or let groot do his thing. Both bad options. So I hire groot and if  he dies I can still transform Myranda into groot if needed. 
 

try him, maybe he also suits your style!

as to your experience:

I also love dubble AP for Initiative reasons. As mentioned in the other thread I find dubble activation before opponents can respond is my way to go with Marcus.

I have used IR on initiates only and that combo rocks. With Myranda transforming into minions I can see the potential as well. 

In my last game I didn’t play cojo or Cerberus. I find em both squishy and expensive so I wanted to try something else. Groot and scorpius have led me to a different path playing Marcus and with that I will use caches of 6 ss if possible. I want 5-6 upgrades first turn. 
 

I really like your „core“: Myranda with IR and 2 OI with AP. 
 

have fun playing 

@Whutthanks a lot for answering in detail. That clears up all my questions. 

3 hours ago, Whut said:

I find that keeping Chronicles & Healers within range of the right targets AND activating them in the correct order is hard to balance among other priorities, and fighting spread-out battles feels incredibly difficult and clunky due to the nature of Seeker's mobility options

That’s what I expected, too. Positioning and activation Order are nearly as hard as with my NVB Lucius crew. But I never felt I was lacking options. After the game we talked about our experience and your ratings regarding gg1 and possible changes in gg2. And we agreed upon the fact that it largely depends on local meta and regional playstyle. 
 

your video was and still is a great help for me to wrap my head around the keyword thanks a lot for your work!!!

Slowly building my crew so I will be able to play first games soon. 
 

while reading again I found the „you’re coming with me“ trigger of lamplighters light the way action quite interesting. For only a 5 of mask you can get a nice amount of mobility. E.g if I move 5“ with my first AP and then target a lamp at 2“ to push it 3“ and then place in btb the lamplighter stands 12“ away from where it started and still has one AP left to interact. And he is standing right next to a lit lamp... 

5 hours ago, LexLock said:

The Rougarou's Intimidating Roar is a great friendly movement tool; no flip and 6" of movement, just don't target minions and you can deadly pursuit to keep up with your crew..

Why no flip?

44 minutes ago, Rufess said:

And forgot the Hard Slam. Dirt Nap is a better attack in lots of the case. You can attack a full health enemy or enemy within 6" of Jedza to reverse the healing to damage. Or just heal an enemy to trigger all your Chronicles.

Yes slow @ 8“ on its own is real good. Stat 4 is a huge drawback though. 

2 hours ago, Rufess said:

Moorwraiths on the other hand, have the lowest value within the keyword. They are not bad for 4ss and have some great synergy with Grave Goo. Seeker however is very tight on SS thanks for their decent mid-high cost Enforcers. I think they might shine if GG3 is more friendly to low cost minions.

First of all: thank you. 
yes I can see that moorwraith aren’t the jack of all trades kind of minion.
Low stats on offense and defense, a very situational free action and possibly one-hit can kill it instantly even though it has armor and shielded. 
 

so what are the Pros, next to being cute models?

-paired with a goo the moorwraith have a 2“ severe, hazardous aura and hand out shielded to the goo. So you can do the same „Push and damage“ shenanigans as with the surveyor. 

-paired with another moorwraith it easily gets shielded +2 to boost damage up to 3/4/5...

- Jedza uses moorwraith as mobile terrain markers for life of the earth if the opponent stays away from the natural terrain... 

i think they do bring utility but are simply outshined by the surveyors considering ping damage, mobility and survivability. 

13 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Wow, I did not realise Scorpius is stat 7. Throw in that armor 2, and seems like a suped up Necrotic Machine xD

Definitely have to try this!

The inhuman reflexes on Initiate over Myranda wouldn't have occured to me either. So I'm keen on trying your tech!

The order initiate buffed up like this is really a force:

stampede (1 dmg), blade rush (1 dmg), charge through, and buying a [+] to Duell and chimera strike trigger combined with a focus mostly results in 7 dmg in one hit. 
BUT: the best thing about it is combining this with accomplice (Marcus or Myranda)... activate M or M to call the wild and charge with the initiate. Then afterwards accomplice into initiate activation and go nuts. Ok most of the time your initiate will be exposed afterwards but such a move has very high damage potential. 

I took the following list into ullix yesterday and it went well 

Marcus Jogapants gG2.1 (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 6
Leader:
  Marcus
Totem(s):
  Jackalope
Hires:
  Myranda
  The Scorpius
  Order Initiate
    Inhuman Reflexes
  Grootslang
  Will o' the Wisp
    Ancient Pact
  Will o' the Wisp 2
    Ancient Pact

after the first turn it looked like this:

Marcus Jogapants gG2.1 (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 6
Leader:
  Marcus + Feathered Wings
Totem(s):
  Jackalope + Serrated Teeth and Claws
Hires:
  Myranda + Serrated Teeth and Claws
  The Scorpius + Armored Plates
  Order Initiate + Feathered Wings and Formidable Horns and Inhuman Reflexes
  Grootslang + Armored Plates
  Will o' the Wisp + Natural Camouflage and Ancient Pact
  Will o' the Wisp 2 + Natural Camouflage and  Ancient Pact

the mvp was the Order Initiate who delt lots and lots of damage to those pigs. We played turf war and the damage was put to good use swapping markers back to neutral. WotW were good schemers and together with the groot manages to score breakthrough and research mission twice. My plan to walk wotw along the edges and make it hard for the opponent to encounter them was enough to keep both alive till round 4... Scorpius died pretty early due to armor piercing triggers. Wasn’t the best choice I think... I was a bit worried not fielding Cojo but it went well and I think I will try again. 

On 2/24/2021 at 3:58 PM, Whut said:

Hey all,
My Seeker Review is up! Check it out if you'd like and leave me some feedback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owPiby6CqDs

 

Hello Whut,

I‘ve watched your review 3 times by now and I am still a bit irritated about your low rating for the lamplighters and moorwraith. In theory the moorwraith seems excellent to use as mobile terrain marker for Jedzas life of the earth (severe and impassable) and it can hit any other model with any mask for a bowled over trigger that moves both the target and the moorwraith 4 inches and be subsequently healed to activate chronicles. If combined with the goo you also get hazardous terrain on top of that. 
...so are they really that worthless? And how is terrain Jedza played if not with moorwraith? Are geodes of 1 surveyor enough??

and what about the lamplighter? Is the push n heal not important to exploit the chronicles? 
 

don’t get me wrong, I totally get your analysis of the whole keyword and was simply asking myself if there are different ways to play Jedza with these little fellas cause the models are simply awesome. 

This may also be helpful:

I would love to help but have only read the crew and have no experience playing it...

most valuable pro to me is the look. Lamplighter and moorwraith look awesome!!

I had 2 games in which I took very similar lists. One against von schtook in which my opponent scored no vp until we called it a game. And second against zipp in which I got the upper hand turn 2 and 3 by killing models that didn’t activate before. 
 

my lists were:

Lucius Staples  (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 4
Leader:
  Lucius Mattheson
Totem(s):
  The Scribe
Hires:
  Mature Nephilim
  Hinamatsu
  Alan Reid
  Guild Lawyer
  Changeling
    Ancient Pact
  Changeling 2
    Ancient Pact
 

and in the second game (no OOKs) I swapped mature for agent 46. 

I must say: 

1 dubble AP is awesome with that much card draw.

2. Alan Reid is my go to guy. I prefere him over agent since he can really Wrack the opponents game in many ways. Slow is awesome - esp with 1/3/4 and coordinated attack (stone if necessary). And then boring conversation with diversion and a scribe nearby. Not so amusing for my opponent. 

3. Hinamatsu was my flanking scheme hunter. Hard to take down if not in a deathzone and fast enough to scheme herself or kill enemy schemers. 

4. agent is all right. He dies too easily imho. I want him to be something he is not. Mature performed way better. maybe next time i will try hoody instead of 46. 

On 5/15/2021 at 4:31 PM, Mac_Atk said:

Collodi, The Rebuilt- he becomes playable non-DMH, but has to hire Lucius as second master.

Mhhhh maybe Lucius‘ title will be:

„Lucius - political puppeteer“ 

and he comes with Collodis head on his fancy cane... 

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

AP is absolutely brilliant.

But I would worry about the approach with Wisps. They are so squishy that they can be single activationed by lot of things (unless you give them camo), and they will be super high priority targets for the enemy?

Of course they get the camo. A few opponents described em wisps as a pain to take down before the distracted changes. So I wanna try em out and I got good results from dubble changelings with AP in my Lucius crew... but thanks for your thoughts, I will share my experience...

For Lucius Mattheson - imho:

1-2 changelings are essential 

versatiles that are commonly used in my „competitive lists“ are:

angel eyes, rider, Hinamatsu, vasilisa & wicked dolls to summon stiched and mature nephilim. 
 

therefor I would make familiar faces green and halfblood, rider, Hinamatsu yellow. Puppet show only goes with stiched IMO. 
 

I was thinking of a little more card draw in my Marcus builds and came up with the following build - what do you think? 
 

Marcus Jogapants New gG (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 5
Leader:
  Marcus
Totem(s):
  Jackalope
Hires:
  Hinamatsu
  Myranda
  The Scorpius
  Order Initiate 2
    Inhuman Reflexes
  Will o' the Wisp
    Ancient Pact
  Will o' the Wisp 2
    Ancient Pact
 

the wisps go scheming and walking on flanks sometimes trying to lure an opponent out of position. May work with outflank, spread, turf war, break the line, catch n Release ... 

marcus, scorpius and Order initiate pair up and become a thread to the center. With initiate being quite a damage dealer through blade rush, stampede in combination with call of the wild and accomplice From Marcus or Myranda... 

initiate/Marcus/Myranda also letting me draw cards...

myranda and Hinamatsu are used wherever needed... can also be replaced by kitty, rider, weaver,  groot or whatever needed. 
 

drawing 2 cards for AP and 2-3 cards through primal domain -sometimes more... 

Even though I love Lucius and his actual play, I have high hopes for his title. 
...although I would have preferred a boost to his Investigators to buff his keyword. 

 

I would love to see Colette drop several „tricky explosion boxes“ like Titania and her marker stuff but with Kazaaaaammmmm and a lot of smoke. 

The righteous and honorable Lucius Fitzgerald Mattheson

On second sight, beating has been dialed back. More scheming, positioning, interacting.....

i like a lot!!!