beevison

Did Hamelin really need to be made better?

This! Also, I've gotten a lot of work out of Mad Dogs utility (ie push back and blowing up cover). I'm not saying he's better or even equal to Alyce or McTavish. Because he isn't, however I would never discount him and not taking him makes me nervous not having those utility options. Plus he can take crate of dynamite. And the one game I managed to blow up 2 scheme markers in the middle of a Somer crew in a turn was just so satisfying. Or the time I rapidfired on an engaged Nekima (engaged with Parker) and pushed her out of combat on first shot and took her down. I have fond memories of using him...

Ah of course, completely forgot I Pay better is restricted to Henchmen and Masters. My bad.

I like them. May try out that first one. Although, for some reason the lack of Mad Dog makes me die a little inside. Every game I've played with him that shotgun push back has saved my bacon. I don't have McTavish so can't really try that out.

Very true. And other than replacing Yamaziko with a more expensive model you don't really need the SS for anything else. Second question. Why Yamaziko?

@apes-ma Thanks for the info! It's definitely something I would like to try out. Although I agree with your point about 10SS being a lot in his crew. What kind of lists are you making with him?

I like it. You definitely aren't going to make any friends with this. One question. Do you need Hans? Could you not use a similar set up with Trapper? the only purpose I can see is for LOS. And with winged plague surely you could just make sure you maintain that?

On the topic of melee beater for Parker. I tend to prefer Ashes and Dust. Not just because he's a great piece. But also because of the way your opponent will react A&D. 9 times out of 10 his reputation will precede him and your opponent will spend significant resources to neutralise him. Which you can use to your advantage and lets the rest of Parker's crew (or any other crew for that matter) get on with the game. That is why I often take him. Yes he's a great model, but more often it's so I can screw with my opponent.

Was browsing through the Arcanist forums and noticed they have a thread on how Wave 5 has changed the meta for their Masters. Thought it might be an idea if we Outcasts had a similar thing. I haven't played any of the new Wave 5 stuff, so my understanding is theoretical at best. But, I was hoping for other people's input, experiences and thoughts on how Wave 5 has affected our faction.

I'm not going to argue that some of his TNs are too high. An 8 for a walk action is stupid, to the point where I tend to avoid using it unless I have the cards for it. I think it comes down to how you want to play the game. I have a tendency to figure out what my opponent and act aggressively to mess with that. Every one always talks about activation control is key. And I don't completely disagree. But if you can force your opponent to do things that they don't want to do with their activation's then that doesn't matter so much. I don't know, like I said in my initial post I've played at best 10 games with Parker. So I'm by no way experienced and it may mean that as I play more I come round more to the "he's no good" way of thinking. But, I seem to getting him to work and work very well (75% of the time :P). Time will tell, but I don't agree with him being bad. But, I'm biased.

I've found that if something absolutely must die, combination of Convict gunslinger and Mad Dog rapid firing will do the trick for most things. Ashes and Dust is always fun.

I do agree that some of his TNs could do with a bit a of a reduction. But, when I play Parker I tend to play him very card hungry, where my card hand are for him as a priority to achieve his goals and most of the rest of the crew have ways of accessing positives. However, the resource generation I find to be fairly incidental. If I'm playing Parker right then usually what I'm doing with the upgrade is worth losing a soulstone for. I'm by no means an "experienced" Parker player. But when I look at Parker, I don't see a resource generation master, I see a master who has this very large toolbox of tricks that he can do to really mess with your opponent. Half the difficulty with him is figuring out what is the best way to mess with the opponent. The games where I've played what I consider to be "perfect Parker" games on talking to opponent after, they tell me how frustrating it is trying to playing the way they want to and it not working because of Parker tricks. Forcing them to play in ways they wouldn't normally consider. Having said that I play Parker badly when I play him in a specific way. Or I decide I really want to do something with him, when on afterthought this doesn't mess with the opponent. Parker doesn't play the Strategy and/or Scheme, his crew can do that, he plays your opponent. Course it could be I'm talking utter s**t. But I've been fairly successful with him and can only see myself getting better as I learn how best to screw with different opponents.

@beergod agree completely and this matches what I said. Most masters have a set way of playing. Or a few different set ways of playing. I don't agree with the resource generation malarkey. I tend to see that as incidental. What it allows is for you to keep up your style of play of being a toolbox and allowing you to do what you need to do. If I have to pay a soulstone to attach the upgrade crate of dynamite to blow up a marker in the middle of the opponents crew. That's worth it. If it's just to blow up a single marker and maybe hit a couple of models. No not at all. The point isn't even the damage here, as with the hail of bullets. The point is that in both cases you are forcing an opponent to play a different way. @apes-ma I do agree that some of his TNs are a little on the high side. And I struggle with that so much. Especially considering that in most turns I find myself doing critical things. In general I agree that Parker isn't easy to play. But, what I don't agree with is that he is ineffective. I just tend to think people are looking at him wrong.

@apes-ma Actually a (0) to discard an upgrade would be useful. There have been occasions where I've found myself trying to figure out ways to discard an upgrade I no longer need. (Coordinated heist I'm looking at you) So yeah that could be useful. I mostly play against Neverborn, Gremlins (A LOT of Gremlins) and Ressers. And I tend to find that Parker has the tools to deal with all of these. Of course against some of these factions some of his tools are completely useless. Mild tangent there. But yes I will definitely be trying out the Hodgepodge with Parker.

I think I tend to be on @apes-ma side for this. Whilst I agree Hodgepodge will help out in early turns. I'm not sure how comfortable I feel running a 10ss model with Parker. To be honest I'm ok with on the first turn using soul stones to attach new upgrades. You're going to gain them back later anyways. The extra card draw seems useful. But problem is that it depends on putting out trinkets. Which requires a 7... So a fair portion of the time you aren't drawing, you're cycling. It's definitely something I will try out. But I'm unconvinced as to how useful it will really be compared to using the 10ss for 2 Bandidos or a Dead Outlaw and Effigy, or if you're that worried about ss and card draw, Hodgepodge Effigy and Ronin for seppuku fun times.

I genuinely feel that Parker is capable of being competitive. But I think it requires a different kind of thinking to most other outcast masters and indeed other faction's masters. Most masters have a set way to play them (or several), a kind of "this is how you play...such and such". I don't think (or at least the way I play him) Parker does this, or if he does it doesn't work very well. What he excels at is messing with other crews method of playing, making it difficult for them to play the way they want to. Every turn you figure out what the opponent wants to do, and usually there is a way for Parker to screw with it. In no way am I saying that Parker is top tier outcasts. But, I think when played properly he can give any master a hard time.

Happy to help. Sue is just generally great with Parker. Helps against Ca actions that Parker is vulnerable to. (although Parker quickly outdistances Sue most games) His gun is reliable damage, which is always nice. And the card draw is is amazing for Parker as his thematic crew has alot of discard card tricks. @izikial I definitely agree. Whilst Parker can put out a steady amount of damage. The damage is not the purpose, often its for the trigger (drop it) or card drain (dynamite). I've never tried Envy with Parker, but I can see why that would be pretty worthwhile. I tend to find that combination of abilities like Hail of Bullets, Dynamite, Stick up, You were told to duck etc... are incredibly powerful at forcing your opponent to play in ways they don't want to. In a sense you're preventing an opponent from playing the way they want to and playing to your plan. It's hard to accomplish, but when it works you feel like the puppet master.

I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily an "experienced" Parker player. I've probably played somewhere between 8-10 games with him with varying degrees of success. Thing I would say is that Parker is incredibly fluid and flexible (within limits). From the very beginning of any given turn you want to be thinking about what your crew needs to be done. Often you'll find that Parker has something that will allow you to do this. Also don't be afraid to change that plan as the turn goes on. A lot of the time I get bogged down with an idea I had at the start of the turn which is no longer useful later on. I think a lot of the problem with Parker and how people view him, is that there is no "handbook" or "how to" for Parker. In all the games I've been successful with him, it's because I've not tried to play him like I have in other games, and played him like I think he needs to in that specific game. In games I've done badly it's usually because I tried to do something I did in another game against a different crew. In 90% of my games the whole crate of dynamite blowing up enemy scheme markers shenanigans to be meh. Then I come up against Collodi and I'm using it every turn to force the effigies to spread out. Hail of bullets is great in some games, but against Lilith, or Zipp?? Not so much. As to crew, I tend to play very thematic crews. So his crew box plus dead outlaws. I haven't tried Wokou raiders yet. I almost always take Sue and a Convict Gunslinger. But, even in tournaments I like to go with thematic crews. Hope that helps...

Playing a 3 way free for all versus Perdita and Kirai. Played very cautiously first couple of turns as both Perdita player and Kirai player had a bit of a grudge match going. Third turn card draw came up RJ, BJ and lowest card being a 9, deck Gods decreed that blood must kill. Blood went charging Santiago (at this point I feel it worth mentioning that Francisco was tied up with Ikiryo) I forget how much damage I did, what I do remember was Red jokering Perdita for 11dmg, which thankfully she only managed to stone for 1 dmg. Perdita in one shot. End of the turn saw Perdita, Santiago, Orderly, and Nino in various pieces. Worth also noting this was my first time with Tally sheet on Blood. Ended the turn with just as good a hand as starting, minus RJ. Next turn managed to get a charge lane open for a second slingshot on Kirai. Again Don’t remember what dmg I did. But ended with Kirai, 2 Seishin, a Hanged, and some other spirit I couldn’t remember the name of. (Ikiryo was engaged with a whispered Hannah) Needless to say after two turns 2 masters and a lot of dead models my opponents spend the rest of the game jumping up and down on both Viks. Only just scraped a victory. I love playing Viks, but sometimes it makes me feel like such a bad person when your opponent is removing their 3rd model from a single activation. That beautiful beautiful whirlwind.