L3gion

I like mini-stories and poems in the bios. I don't think there should be a lot of them, but a couple throughout the book really add variety to the book's structure and flavour to the fluff. What a model does is described in the stat card; bios is for what a character is.

i miss vignettes and pop-outs describing aspects of the everyday life in Malifaux. In general, I really like that Malifaux books are not just dry rules with bits of fluff here and there - they are, in fact, quite the opposite, they put the lore and the mood first. That's what grabbed me about the game, and pop-outs, vignettes, songs, tiny bits of storytelling really bring the setting to life.

18 minutes ago, Skylifter-1000 said:

That is a really nice idea, too. I just don't know if I can get a western vibe from Tara, somehow she isn't my deal. 

Barrows is also a very western style guy, though. Might be worth considering, I do not understand his playstyle very well, but maybe that's just a matter of practice. 

Well, I love Lovecraftian stuff, and the "Dead of Winter" story about Tara sort of reminded me of "The Dark Tower" series - a lone cowboy (cowgirl?) in a strange, surreal world; the overall weirdness of the situation and the chilling loneliness of a hero, who's still determined to see his/her journey to the end... And after that story, neither Tara nor Obliteration give too much of a crap about anything - she's dead, he's mostly helpless, and they both are so beaten down by life that they don't care about much now. Tara knows about the nothingness beyond our world and the futility of all mortal efforts, but she remains friendly to everyone who deserves it... She's just so fascinating! To me, she feels like a great person to hang out with)

I don't know: I like a lot of different stuff, and, to me, much of it came together in the lore for Tara. Just personal preferences)

26 minutes ago, Skylifter-1000 said:

I do not understand his playstyle very well, but maybe that's just a matter of practice

Yeah, that's what I hope for with Tara=\) I often feel like I'm too stupid to play her crew properly (well, I'm too stupid for any kind of a strategy/tactics game, so there's that)... But it boils down to how much you prioritise the thematic aspects of the game over its mechanics and competitiveness. Even when I get destroyed by my opponents, I still have fun, because I've just played with a crew I can relate to. (And the gameplay is cool, which also helps). Who cares about the results, if I get to play with the toys I like?) I know it's not a mindset that is common or necessarily good, but it's still a thing to keep in mind.

Parker Barrows' crew, definitely. And Sue.

Personally, I went with the "Browncoats"/"Dead West meets Cthulhu" themes, so for the core of my band I picked the Tara crew with Dead Authopsies, Death Marshals, Forgotten Marshal, Scion of the Void and some other models that either marginally fit the themes above or just play well (like Hayreddin and Bete Noire). I know that it may not be the best crew gameplay-wise, but it's thematic, and that's all that matters to me. And I'm currently eyeing Dead Outlaws and Sue for the Outcasts' side of the crew. 

By the way. Dear Wyrd! Tara needs more eldritch abominations and/or dead cowboys! Tallos is kinda cool mechanically, but doesn't fit the theme at all:(

9 hours ago, HellecticMojo said:

Well, saying things were out of place, then told that things are in place, then saying that you didn't like it anyway just renders the conversation moot don't it?

 

It does, but it doesn't invalidate @edopersichetti 's feelings about the subject.

I was OK with the coffee machine, because I thought it was a cute real-life reference (and it didn't seem out of place, because progress keeps going, even... well, especially in Malifaux), and I know nothing about the hidden meaning of bagels for Americans. The OP's point about "feeling something's off" still stands.

Fiction, especially based on alternative history, is a strange beast. The author tries to get some message, factual or emotional, to the readers, using certain facts about the described world and the author's mastery of language. The thing is, the reader is not obligated to perceive that message in the exact way the author intended it, and he or she doesn't have to agree with it. Google "Fahrenheit 451" by Bradbury: he stated on numerous occasions that his book was specifically about the effect TV has on people, and he got furious once when the readers tried to convince him that his book was actually about censorship. Neither party is wrong: the author did his best to convey a meaning, and the audience took another meaning from his creation.

Fiction that has references to the established world-view of the reader, be it historical novels, alternative history, fantasy, sci-fi or whatever, is quite challenging in this respect. It's not enough just to have facts supporting the stuff you write - you need to convince the reader to believe in the world you create. Some of them - you will, some of them - you won't. The facts may support your point, but, just because you're right, you can't expect the reader to instantly get the exact subjective impression that you want. And that's OK. Malifaux fluff generally has pretty good writing - the "Crossroads" book is still my favourite, to the point of wanting a printed version to put on a shelf next to my favourites. You can't blame an objectively good writer that he's not good enough, and you can't blame the reader for not liking the stuff he writes. To each his/her own.

It is nice to get historical insights from the writers and the people in forums, who, I'm sure, have a wide range of interests and facts to support them. The "coffee and bagels" discussion remained civil to the end, with neither party shouting "well, I feel this way, so you're wrong!" or "well, I know that, so your feels are wrong!". @edopersichetti provided his/her feedback on the book, was given feedback on that feedback, accepted it for further contemplation, and for now remained with his/her opinion unchanged. And now desperately tries to escape this conversation, I think...:) Yeah, the discussion of facts (or whatever is seen as facts in a fictional world) is now over; the discussion of personal feelings, I think, is not really what this forum is supposed to be about... Sooo... yeah. New topic?)

Tl;dr: it's okay for a consumer of media to have gut feelings about is. Justified or not, and if not - what to do about it, is up to the consumer. You can't be wrong for feeling something.

P.S.: is it just me, or the forum automatically logs people off for waiting too long before posting? I start typing a post, and by the time I'm done (yeah, I'm slow) I'm no longer signed in. I have to log in again, hoping that the post is not lost. It might just be my crappy PC at work, but it is really annoying-__-

Thank you all for the responses. I guess I need to do some research before writing angry posts on the Internet... Also, fantasy and alternative history are quite different - we really don't know how the existence of magic affected the development of different nations. I lack the sufficient historical insight to continue this discussion, and whether or not I "feel" something is wrong is really irrelevant, soo... whatever.

And now for something completely different.

Do you think Malifaux will eventually completely move on from its western aesthetics? The timeline keeps advancing, the tone is gradually changing (thanks, Marlow), and a number of The Other Side models look more dieselpunky than steampunky already. Do you think that, some releases in, Malifaux will completely shift from dusters and cowboy hats to trenchcoats and fedoras? Will adopt some sort of fantasy WWI and Call of Cthulhu style? How do you feel about that idea?

1 hour ago, Redbeard said:

But there is racism in the game world before this story.

This is certainly a very overt example, but it's not exactly new. Just look at Ironsides' fluff: "The daughter of escaped slaves" is literally how it starts. That means that slavery based on race was present in the game world within the last thirty years at a minimum, from that sentence alone. Lines like "[t]he Guild's decision to uphold the horrific local laws of its member countries" also point to this issue.

These are certainly not the only examples; it's just a matter of how explicit things are in the text. Yes, the Guild is certainly more accepting of different people, but that doesn't mean that everywhere in the world is going on the same way.

I'm confused why you're totally okay with discrimination on things like nationality, socio-economics, and political affiliations, but skin-color discrimination is so far out there as to provide cognitive dissonance that makes the story totally unbelievable. If there was a story where a character was suddenly a total ass to a German, would you jump up and say "hold on now, I haven't seen any German discrimination so far, this is totally unbelievable!"?

In this example, the game world is literally building on what was established -- slavery and racism in the US -- and Toni is using that as a justification for making a choice. That, though, feels shoehorned in to you. I guess Wyrd could have, conversely, been dealing with racism regularly to make you feel more okay with that... but you said you don't want that either. You'd rather Wyrd dance around certain issues. Well, actually, you're okay with them tackling discrimination, so long as it's not based on race.

First thing first: I'm not totally okay with discrimination=\\) Just putting this out there.

As for the rest of your post... Hm. You do raise valid points. Apparently I don't remember the lore as well as I thought. And I probably did not correlate the word "slaves" with racism in my mind when reading Toni's description. Again, there are characters of all kinds of nationalities in the fluff, and racial issue does not come up there. I mean, look at Neil Henry's story in the Chronicles - there's plenty of material for this kind of stuff there, but there was none. I can get political and cultural differences and conflicts based on them, because they come up far more often and because they are expected in a melting pot of the frontier. I pretty much expect right proper English gentlemen to be asses to French people, or pompous "progressive" members of the Guild to be dismissive of, say, Indians (hi, Sandeep). And, in my mind, this is a different kind of discrimination from racial hatred. I may very well be wrong here, and I am well aware that no kind of discrimination is more acceptable than the other - that's just my subjective perception. So, the Arcanist story sort of caught me off guard here: Toni makes a pretty damn significant decision, one that can affect hundreds of people, one that goes against her principles, based on something I didn't even remember about her. It felt forced when I read it, and it still feels forced now (though a bit less so now that you brought up the examples from fluff).

Again: black people are badasses here! They have killer robots and stuff! How the hell are there black slaves?! Abyssinia aside, there was magic on Earth - I think even various "barbaric" tribes had something to teach to the "civilized" countries, and something to put against their military. Someone like Neil Henry works like a slave not because of skin color, but because that's how his life turned - the Guild screws workers indiscriminately... And so... I could get the justification of racism being "his people have weird customs", "they worship different deities" and such. I could get more pragmatic stuff, like "he has something we want" or "he acted sorta bad toward us, let's punish him". Bad people are bad, and in Malifaux (and Earthside as well) bad things happen. But the justification for the murder of Toni's father was that he simply was black. That's it - just because he's black. Just... can't... buy it. Sorry.

The point is not what I want or don't want - a lot of times I don't know what I want. I do not demand anything from Wyrd. I only know that some stuff I consume I like, and some stuff I don't, and I try to analyze it and find out why, to various degrees of effect. Maybe I am not clear when I try to describe it; sorry about that... This story I did not like. I liked the quiet inclusion of all sorts of characters in the lore, and I didn't like it when Wyrd decided it still needs to show that those characters really were different. But they totally aren't. But they kind of are, hence the issue in question. But... So many but's.

I don't like stuff forced into something where I feel it doesn't belong, that's all, I guess. And I also don't like real life stuff in my fantasy (see a ton of crappy fantasy, where characters talk and act exactly like people in the real world), but I'm OK with its adaptation for worldbuilding purposes (see wizard fascism and "racism against purple people" - @Malkirk, I am so using this phrase in all future discussions on similar subjects:) ). Again: personal preferences that I apparently struggle to describe properly... And a strong enough dislike to justify writing about it on this forum.

33 minutes ago, Malkirk said:

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Oh, no offense taken. You're asking solid questions, and I don't really have answers. Remember that cultural prejudice is pretty much identical to racial prejudice, just the difference in culture is more visibly apparent. As far as looking at historical inconsistencies (how is there slavery if Abyssinia is a thing?) well, I feel like Malifaux doesn't take a lot of that into account right now.

I feel like that's all I can comfortably say. I'd rather Wyrd tackle these issues head on and address them, rather than dancing around or creating some kind of substitution (I'm racist against purple people!) but that's just me.

Okay then. Thank you for understanding.

Just to clarify: I have nothing against raising heavy subjects in supposedly entertainment-type media, be it board games, videogames, comics or whatever. Just need them to be justified within the world. So, "racism against purple people" (or green people, aka Gremlins) actually sits better with me. (Not sure right now how I would feel about the Gremlins example, but that would depend on the specific story.)

As for dancing around... In my opinion, it is better just to include a variety of characters without pointing fingers at the fact of inclusion, which Malifaux has been doing for quite a while now. This also works for me. I'm not saying that pointing fingers was necessarily the intention, but that's how it seemed to me.

I guess I will have to wait for more fluff and see how things work out. And read the rest of the book in the meantime)

P.S.: just happened to stumble onto the word "fascism" somewhere on Twitter and thought that I owe another apology, for grammatical errors=\ Not my first language, not the words I use often.

56 minutes ago, Malkirk said:

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Usual caveat about this being my opinion, I don't speak for Wyrd, even though I wrote this story. I don't really have much more information than the rest of you, and what I do have is covered by NDAs that may or may not pertain to this discussion. Cool?

The only thing I'll say about this is that it's my belief that things inside Malifaux are different than they are outside the Breach. The Guild only cares about power, and if you can wield that power, they don't care about your race, creed, religion, sexual identity, hair style, musical preferences, stance on cannibalism, etc, et al. So while there's a kind of universal suffrage inside the Breach, the countries outside the Breach are still doing all sorts of racist stuff, and the Guild tolerates it because, again, power. As long as you do what they say, they're not going to interfere. Until, that is, interfering can somehow get them something that they want.

Thank you for answering, and sorry if I was too negative - didn't want to insult anyone working on the fluff, I'm just frustrated at inconsistencies that, to me, subjectively, seem contrived and jarring. Regarding NDAs - totally cool.

I still think there would be mentions of racism in the fluff if it was an issue. I cannot imagine people simply forgetting about their beliefs and prejudices, just because they are in another world now. Somewhere, somehow, stuff like this would still show up. But no - no mentions of it before this particular story. I can get a lot of potential conflicts in the world of Malifaux, on both sides of the breach: nationalistic ("You dirty French frog-eaters/Eastern barbarians/etc."), social ("You dirty moneybags/filthy plebeans/etc."), political ("We, the Guild, are strong, and you, native Americans/Indians/whatever, are not, and also your traditions are weird, so screw you"), downright Nitzschean ("We, the Resurrectionists/the Arcanists/whatever, shall rule over the lesser men!") and so on. Racism based on looks - sorry, I just can't. The cognitive dissonance is too strong.

And, in my personal taste, it's better to dance around certain issues or adapt them for the purposes of your story (see wizard fascism in "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows") than putting them in the middle of the existing storyline out of nowhere. Just a personal preference.

I could get behind the story, if the motivation was different. For example: Toni's father had a valuable piece of land/a beautiful wife/whatever, that someone powerful in the town wanted. Or he insulted someone rich, because he was always an honest man and sometimes let his tongue get the better of him. After that, the father was framed and murdered. And the Governor-General offered Toni, say, a decree about a death sentence for corruption within all of the Guild's eschelons, or something like that. Still game-changing for society, and does not require hamfisting into the existing lore.

Again, sorry for being harsh in my original post. Just... you know. Had to let it out.

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Saying it now: the following is a personal opinion on the book, and nothing else.

Sorry, not buying the Arcanist story at all. Malifaux, Through the Breach and Chronicles had characters of color for a good while now, and I don't recall any racial hate toward them in the fluff. I actually thought that was the point - a way to get more representation in the character pool while carefully dancing around real life issues (kind of like with religion - there are some mentions of it, and room for thought and imagination, but no specifics. Another thing this reminds me of is the Taelor story in the third book: "You want to work in the mine? Sure, whatever. Don't care if you're a woman: if you can handle the work - do it"). I liked it that way. And the reveal of the Abyssinian faction for The Other Side only deepened my beliefs - it is an African nation that is highly advanced and obviously influencial (they have giant killing machines, they have to be). And their advancement could not have happened in the last, like, twenty years - it definitely took centuries.

BUT now you are telling me that racism against black people is totally an issue, that lynching is a thing and so on. And why? Just to have a plot twist of Toni betraying Ramos. Sorry, but this is stupid. Maybe there was slavery of, say, native Australians or inhabitants of some islands, but, with Abyssinia being a thing and the general tone of the other fluff, I still don't buy racism in the Malifaux world (racism as in "you look different, therefore you are inferior"). To me, this story was a way for writers to say "hey, look how politically sensitive and respectful we are! ...all of a sudden..." Please, don't. I would really appreciate it if you kept politics out of my escapism.

Also, did Zoraida hit her head on her hut's ceiling or something? I did not really imagine her being this incompetent. I'm interested to see where the Neverborn storyline goes, but the story itself I didn't really like. Especially the big reveal, which had ZERO hints at prior - it just comes out of nowhere. "The great and powerful Zoraida has been deceived! The witch who literally weaves fate has been played like a small child! How???!" - "Dunno, magic an' stuff." Wooow. Deus ex machina much.

Also, it is hard for me to believe that various Outcasts, who are used to not trusting people and being independent, simply agree to stick together from now on. Some of them - sure, why not: Von Schill, Parker, maybe Tara... Maybe Viks. But all of them? Without any harsh words, and arguments, and egotistical reasonings? I find it hard to believe. But whatever - I can suspend my disbelief on this. The above points - not so much.

Overall... I kind of liked the Guild story, I really enjoyed the Ressers story. The other ones I have not read yet... I do not like where Marlow takes Malifaux - from the age of heroes to the age of civilization. But that is inevitable, I guess, - the dialogue between Perdita and Kitchener in the third book was quite an illustration to this (great story, by the way). I liked some of the new models, but not nearly enough to be excited about the new wave. In general, I think that "Broken Promises" is a viable name for this book=\ And that makes me really sad. I got into Malifaux because of its setting and stories, and now I see the things I liked about them gradually fall apart:( I really hope the next releases will do better for me.

18 minutes ago, Guyon said:

In the mean time you are a loud to have steam powered crossbows that that have a great fire rate, souped up shotguns, and bombs!  You can have a bomb, but not a simple soulstone for healing?  Is the guild missing the big picture? 

I believe in the northern regions of the real world people are allowed (and encouraged) to have guns, maybe not with them at all times, but at home - definitely. Because bears. Same thing in Malifaux: because Neverborn, and zombies, and bandits, and whatever. I still don't think it is a good idea for some random guy to flash a shotgun or a bomb in the more civilized parts of Malifaux City, but closer to the outskirts, or in mining towns, - why not? Same with westerns: guns are pretty much a neccessity, but a gatling gun under the bar stand is a bit of a stretch. Like I said, Malifaux is full of contrasts, thin lines and delicate balances, and that's the beauty of it. So many possible conflicts, so many possible stories... So much potential for both players and FMs.

As for soulstones for personal "peaceful" use, I would suggest attaching a crapton of paperwork to soulstones sold by the Guild: permits to buy, permits to carry, to keep, to use, etc., with specific mentions of their intended use (e.g. healing). Maybe a tad smaller crapton for soulstone dust. And some bureaucratic procedure to recharge/replace them. I think it should work nicely for characters who need the stones - after all, they are free to choose not to follow the requirements of those documents.

Thank you for starting this discussion! It is an important one to have, I believe, given how different TTB is from the usual heroic fantasy. I think this RPG will go well with people who enjoy playing, or just the concept of, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (Dark Heresy will not do - characters there are still too over-the-top) and storytelling games. That's what this system is best for - telling stories.

Regarding the prices and economics. Somewhere in the fluff it was stated that the Guild invites workers to Malifaux offering them a 3-years contract, but by the time the contract expires, the workers are caught Breach-side in the web of debts and obligations. That is the Guild's instrument of keeping people in the mines - debts, taxes, loans etc. So yes, you could work for a week or two and buy a nice, shiny soulstone - that is, if you don't want to pay off your debts and are ready to face the consequences.

And, again, regarding "Wyrd not wanting us to use magic". Real world doesn't want us to use guns, most of the time; doesn't mean you can't, it's just going to be difficult. If you want something, find a way to get it or to do it, and be ready for the consequences. If you want to use magic in Malifaux, either submit to the Guild and have yourself a pretty collar of a sanctioned mage, or be discreet about it, or throw fireballs left, right and center and get ready for troubles. Wyrd wants you to be creative, they want you to live in the world they created, with its freedoms and obligations; they don't want you to own that world (in various meanings of the word "own" that are not welcome in a civil discussion).

4 hours ago, Guyon said:

That is my point. Players are not average people. And players can afford soulstones.   Wyrd had us lean a lot of rules for a game that they do not want us to use half the stuff. So sure you can get a soulstone and pull it out in in your room, or sit there and do magic ny your self safely. But where is the fun in that?  Why not let people buy then and use magic and then hunt down the abusive and evil users.   Just look at gallery of NPC's they all use magic and soul stones and we get punished using a game mechanic that we paid real money for. 

I think you are relying too much on the idea of "fun". Now, I know that's what games are supposed to be - fun, but the world they are set in is really not.

First of, let's not forget that Malifaux is a frontier world. In the real-life frontier, sure there was a lot of gold - it was literally under people's boots, and a lucky guy could easily find it and wear it. It would attract a lot of unwanted attention, but it was possible. Now, imagine that gold could kill people - like, had gunpowder properties, creating explosions and such. That would change the situation dramatically, wouldn't it? Now, if you wear a golden necklace, not only you are getting the attention of various outlaws and just folks who really need money - you are now a walking threat, and you will be treated as such by the authorities. Sure, maybe you are wearing that necklace because it looks pretty, but good luck explaining it to every single law enforcer you meet. And, speaking of law enforcement: the Guild are not the good guys - they are the strongest guys. Never forget that the Guild treats the Malifaux world as their property, soulstones - as their most valuable asset, and it will not tolerate anyone who might potentially be a threat to it. That is basically the logic of the setting, and that is the logic that the Fate Master has to follow.

I can understand the frustration. Most RPGs allow players to look, act and feel as badass and as Mary Sue-ish as they wish: it is entirely OK in something like DnD for a warrior to wear the helmet made of the skull of a dragon he has slain, for mages to have levitating gems floating around them, and so on. I get it: it's cool to have a soulstone in a walking cane, or on a ring, or whatever (same as, for a school-boy, it feels cool to have a pocket-knife with him). But the Malifaux world is gritty and cynical. Here, such a character will not be cool - he will be stupid, and will get punished for his stupidity very quickly. Taking Warhammer as an example: imagine someone walking around a city with a warpstone around his neck. It is stupid, and so is showing off soulstones in Malifaux.

And, personally, I don't see it as a restriction - I see it as another beautiful aspect of the setting. Malifaux is a complex world with a lot of contrasts and various aspects. Exploring those aspects is quite a pleasure, and that's what TTB allows FMs and players to do.

Returning to the cane example. If I ran a game, and a player wanted to have such an artifact for the awesomeness purposes, I would warn him about the implications of possessing such a thing, and then I would allow it. And have his character run away from Guild patrols, witch hunters, outlaws, Arcanists, beggars with knives - the whole goddamn world, until that player either learns his lesson of how brutal the world can be and gets rid of the thing, or manages to overcome all obstacles and earn the right to be awesome. Because at that point, he is awesome.

Malifaux is a world that allows nearly everyone to achieve greatness. But you have to earn it, and it will be REALLY hard. And painful.

Also:

4 hours ago, spooky_squirrel said:

This is Malifaux.

Bad Things Happen.

6 hours ago, Myyrä said:

Collision with impassable terrain and table is handled by the fact that it is a push. A push will end when it comes into base contact with one of those things. Also, feel free to modify that in any way you want, it was just a suggestion.

You are absolutely right about the push effect; removed the redundant collision rule.

I do like your wording on the Kick It! action better, simply because it is shorter) And also phrased in a more intuitive way.

6 hours ago, LordZombie said:

If you want to keep it more in line with Malifaux first, I would keep the turn limit of 6 and change it to first to 12 VP or most scored. Also, you need to make the ball marker and goal markets Impassible. Otherwise a 40mm base could stand on the ball marker and stop scoring in favor of kills and the same for the goal marker with a 50mm base. There should also be a cause in the conditions that they can not be removed by any means, or some models can use abilities to knock the ball marker off. 

I don't really see a lot of scoring happening within 5-6 turns - the pitch is quite big, models can prevent other models from moving... It would make killing enemies a more viable strategy, and I don't really want that - it is still football, after all, the ball is there for a reason) I think a bunch of short turns will work better, but it remains to be tested.

I did add the Blocking/Impassable rule for the markers. I don't think it matters for the Goal Markers, since you can still put the ball in base contact with them, even if large models are covering them; but I listed this rule for those markers as well simply to avoid confusing situations.

I am not sure about the condition part. It would make a nice risk-reward system to let your opponent throw conditions at you just so you could lead the ball. Also, it gives players another way to control the ball. I left it unchanged for now; if this mechanic is proven to be bad, I will change it.

Thank you for the suggestions!

LordZombie, awesome! Please, let me know how it goes)

Meanwhile, I gave it some thought and decided to implement a couple of changes based on Myyrä's suggestions (thanks again!), including the VP scoring rate (it should shift the focus of the game further away from senseless murder and provide a nice catch-up mechanic). I also changed some of the wording, added the model cap and changed the name to something a bit less cringy (other suggestions are welcome). The way I see it, this is now basically a Hardcore Henchmen variant (Hardcore Hooligans?) focused on mobility. I still have no idea how long the games can last, and I don't know when I will be able to test it, hence the 25 SS limit (feel free to toy around with this); the optional rule should also deal with potential game length issues. The original post remains in place for now, just to give possible players more options to consider.

So, here it is:

14 hours ago, L3gion said:

FAUX-BALL

SET-UP

The Encounter Size for this scenario is capped at 25 SS. No summoning is allowed.

This scenario uses Standard deployment.

Place a 30-mm Ball Marker in the center of the table.  Each player places a 50-mm Goal Marker in the middle of the longer deployment zone edge that is closer to the player. The Ball Marker and the Goal Markers count as Blocking, Impassable terrain.

SPECIAL RULES

This scenario does not use any Schemes; all VP are earned from this scenario alone.

There is no Turn limitation in this scenario; the game ends as soon as one of the crews scores 12 VP.

When a model is about to die, it performs the Drop It! action (if it has the Got It! condition), loses all conditions, heals all damage except for the amount dealt by the killing blow, gains the Paralyzed condition, and is placed in its respective deployment zone.

A model may perform a (1) Interact Action in base contact with the Ball Marker to discard it and gain the following condition:

Got It!: As long as this model has this condition:

-          when this model suffers Severe damage from any source, is moved by any effect not caused by its player, or is about to be removed from play (killed, sacrificed or buried), it first performs the Drop It! action;

-          when this model suffers damage from another model’s Rg (claws, meaning close) Attack Action, this model loses this condition, and the attacking model gains this condition. The attacking model may choose to not apply any damage dealt to this model;

-          this model gains the following Tactical Actions:

(1) Kick it! (Sh 5 / TN 9; Rg (Projectile) #): End the Got It! Condition on this model and place the Ball Marker in a base contact with this model. If this action was successful, push the Ball Marker up to # inches, where # is equal to the amount that this Action's final duel total exceeded the TN. If the Ball Marker comes into base contact with another model, the model gains the Got It! Condition and the Ball Marker is discarded (if the final duel total is 18 or more, the model also suffers 2 damage).

(0) Drop It!: Place the Ball Marker in base contact with this model (or, if impossible, as close as possible to it). Remove the Got It! condition from this model.

When the Ball Marker touches or overlaps the opponent’s Goal Marker, all effects that are supposed to take place during the currently acting model’s action take place, then the current Turn immediately ends, and the other crew Scores a Goal. All models are placed in their respective deployment zones, retaining all suffered damage and obtained conditions; the deployment order is determined as usual, by the players’ flips. The Ball Marker is placed in the center of the table, and the new Turn begins.

VICTORY CONDITIONS

A crew immediately earns 2 VP for any enemy models killed by actions of the crew’s models.

A crew immediately earns 4 VP when it Scores a Goal.

The first crew to earn 12 VP wins!

OPTIONAL RULE

If the game is still not nearly over after 1.5 - 2 hours of play, the players gain the following condition: "Screw It!: Players may collectively discard this condition to immediately end the game, reset the table and play normal "Malifaux" instead.".

51 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

Kick it! would work better if it were worded something like this:

(1) Kick it! (Sh 5 / TN 9): End I’ve Got It! Condition on this model and place the Ball Marker in a base contact with this model, then push the Ball Marker up to a distance equal to the amount that this Action's final duel total exceeded the TN. If the Ball Marker comes into base contact with another model, the model gains I’ve Got It! Condition and the Ball Marker is removed from play.

3VP also seems like kind of a lot for killing enemy models. Wouldn't 2 be enough?

Your wording for Kick It! certainly sounds better) And it is shorter, which is also a plus. The rules for collision with terrain and table edge can be put in the general rules section, that is for sure. I didn't really want to use a TN for this action (it's just kicking the ball, after all), but your variant is still very viable. A couple of things though:

- I went with the Projectile mark specifically to prevent the use of this action while engaged;

- I added the Black Joker part to replace not meeting the TN, as a chance to fumble the kick. And I like the idea of killing weakened enemy models with a mighty kick of a Red Joker-powered ball in the teeth) Just seems fun to me.

To summarize: it might be a good idea to move the terrain/table edge rule out of the condition description and remove the Black Joker rule (or modify it for not meeting the TN). But I would keep the Projectile mark and the Red Joker rule: the first is kind of important, and the second provides players with another tactical trick.

As for VP scoring, I basically went with the Guild Ball system. However, there's also the lack of Turns limitation: I don't want the game to drag on too long, with Turn after Turn of no VP for any of the players. For this very reason, I would recommend using small crews, 20-35 SS each, lead by henchmen.

Thanks for the suggestion! I will wait for other comments (if any), read through the OP and your wording again and then either edit the OP accordingly or provide explanation for not changing it. I tried to base my wording on a specific order of events and effects resolution, to avoid confusing situations. If changing this action does not affect this order, I don't see any other reason not to change it.

UPDATE: A (HOPEFULLY) IMPROVED VERSION OF THE RULES IS FURTHER DOWN THIS TOPIC.

Hi.

I'm not a sports-lover by any stretch, but, with the recent release of the Pyre videogame by Supergiant Games (the creators of my beloved Bastion and the slightly-less-beloved-but-still-awesome Transistor), I started to look into tabletop fantasy sports games. I am currently very intrigued by the Guild Ball Kick Off set, but, while I save money for it and contemplate if I can afford another miniatures game in my life (the answer is no, but that particulcar set looks quite appealing to me, and I'm a consumerist Rotten Belle, soo...), I made up this little scenario to play a ball game in Malifaux. I've yet to test it, so any feedback would be appreciated. Sorry in advance - I don't know how to use the fancy Malifaux symbols here, so I described them in Italic in the text. I'm also not sure if this post belongs here or in the Rules Discussion thread, and if it needs to be moved there, so be it.

Feel free to comment and/or modify this as you please, and I hope you find it interesting!

MALIFOOTBALL

SET-UP

This scenario uses Standard deployment.

Place a 30-mm Ball Marker in the center of the table.  Each player places a 50-mm Goal Marker on the edge of her deployment zone that is also the table’s edge, 18” from the edge’s corners (in the middle of the edge closest to the player).

SPECIAL RULES

This scenario does not use any Schemes; all VP are earned from this scenario alone.

There is no Turn limitation in this scenario; the game ends as soon as one of the crews scores 12 VP.

When a model is about to die, it performs the Drop It! action (if it has the I’ve Got It! condition), loses all conditions, heals all damage except for the amount dealt by the killing blow, gains the Paralyzed condition, and is placed in its respective deployment zone.

A model may perform a (1) Interact Action in base contact with the Ball Marker to discard it and gain the following condition:

I’ve Got It!: As long as this model has this condition:

-          when this model suffers Severe damage from any source, is moved by any effect not caused by its player, or is about to be removed from play (killed, sacrificed or buried), it first performs the Drop It! action;

-          when this model suffers damage from another model’s Rg (claws, meaning close) Attack Action, this model loses this condition, and the attacking model gains this condition. The attacking model may choose to not apply any damage dealt to this model;

-          this model gains the following Tactical Actions:

(1) Kick It! (Rg: (Projectile) 3/6/10): This action counts as a Simple Duel and is affected by modifiers and cheating.  Choose a direction or a model within 10” and the LoS of this model. This model flips card(s) to determine the Rg of this action, as if determining damage from an attack; Black Joker causes this action to be considered the Drop It! action, the 1 AP spent is lost; the Red Joker counts as Rg 13. If this action targets another model, and the target model is within the determined Rg of this action: this model loses the I’ve Got It! condition, and the target model gains this condition; if a Red Joker has been flipped or cheated for this action, the target model also suffers 2 damage. Otherwise, this model places the Ball Marker within the determined range of this action, along the chosen direction, and loses the I’ve Got It! condition; if a piece of Blocking and/or Impassable terrain, or a table edge, is blocking the chosen direction and is within the determined Rg of this action, the Ball Marker must be placed along the chosen direction, not further away from this model than in base contact with the terrain’s edge that is closer to this model (or at that point of the table edge).

(0) Drop It! Place the Ball Marker in base contact with this model (or, if impossible, as close as possible to it). Remove the I’ve Got It! condition from this model.

When the Ball Marker touches or overlaps the opponent’s Goal Marker, all effects that are supposed to take place during the currently acting model’s action take place, then the current Turn immediately ends, and the other crew Scores a Goal. All models are placed in their respective deployment zones, retaining all suffered damage and obtained conditions; the deployment order is determined as usual, by the players’ flips. The Ball Marker is placed in the center of the table, and the new Turn begins.

VICTORY CONDITIONS

A crew immediately earns 3 VP for any enemy models killed by actions of the crew’s models.

A crew immediately earns 4 VP when it Scores a Goal.

The first crew to earn 12 VP wins!

3 hours ago, Amberleigh said:

Well I've flipped a fate and Burtrum Cox has the following fate...

As you walk the lonely road, 

She is unknown to your memories,

and your blood will run black.

Only in death will the pilgrim be free,

and obliterations touch will be gentle.

 

Well! If this isn't Fate, I don't know what is)

A possible interpretation: Mr. Cox has an insatiable lust for knowledge, perhaps forbidden one, that has driven everyone who cared about him away (maybe including the "she" in the second line, who may have changed her life completely and may or may not encounter Mr. Cox in one of the scenes. Or not). If I'm not mistaken, blood turns black when it lacks oxygen - perhaps he has undergone a certain macabre transformation (due to meeting with Tara and failing to impress her, maybe? Or as a result of some ritual that he had conducted). His desire for knowledge has rendered him completely inhuman, both physically and mentally, to the point where the only thing that can stop his descent into madness is death. And, at the end of his lonely road, he finally meets Obliteration... which can go any way that suits the story - a "gentle touch" by Obliteration can very well be the Tyrant waving off an annoying vermin not worthy of His attention, or promoting him to one of his heralds. Or the guy is simply swallowed by the Void, when death frees this particular pilgrim. It's up to you to decide)

P.S.: it seems to me that you are quite attached to your villain, which is completely understandable. But heed my advice: don't be. Fate (Deck) is a fickle mistress, and players can display miracles of ingenuity when it comes to dealing with problems. I can see someone pulling a Joker and ruinning a climactic fight with the villain, soo... If I understand his character correctly, I would say that it is better to avoid direct head-to-head confrontation with him altogether, if possible.

1 minute ago, Amberleigh said:

 

I’m sure I can pull together something suitable should the need arise. Burtrum Cox, my current main Villain, is who the fated are pursuing, I’ve already mentioned that he is everywhere and nowhere and that he appears in one place then another in a blink of an eye. He is described as a wanted ressurectionist as he is the leader of a cult of necromancers known as the Cult of the Crow (I know not very original)

This does leave me with a wide variety of ideas that I can use to create him, is he a Necromancer or something else entirely? Is he actually a Tyrant in man’s clothing? Or is he a collective of people with the same name?  Is he one of triplet’s quadruplets or more etc? All the fated know is....

He is known as the King of Beggars and the figurehead of the Cult of the Crow, His name, as a little fortified community knew him, is Burtrum Cox. He has the ability to be everywhere and nowhere at once or seems to? He can be in the same area at the same time which is impossibility. Or is he simply Aionus?

As you can see even though we are several sessions in the information about the villain is unreliable

I’m having a break from writing and I’m running a one shot followed by a night in Rottenberg to give me some breathing space.

 

 

Sounds cool) Mystery befits great villains. Please, don't let him lose it - I am still mad at the "Wonder Woman" movie, because I loved the villain up until the exact point when he grew some armor and started throwing junk around-__-

I actually started thinking recently if there is any connection between Obliteration and the Grave Spirit (and also Lady Justice, maybe?). I have only read a couple of "Malifaux" books, various forum posts on lore and a bunch of Chronicles so far, so I am not sure if it is answered anywhere, but... Wherever Obliteration appears, zombies follow. We know that Death Marshals go through some weird, presumably necromantic training that doesn't let Ressurectionists raise them from the dead, but Karina can do that, and she is associated with Obliteration. Also, Death Marshals gained the "Void" characteristic in one of the erratas... I don't think this is an original point, but it does provide a few ways to make the world of Malifaux (and your villain) even more complex and mysterious. Especially if you continue your "zero-straight-answers" policy)

56 minutes ago, Amberleigh said:

I wouldnt in that sense, I may be harsh but I'm not cruel :P, I would remove them all from reality and write a session where they are all in obliterations domain and have to escape. That way I can play around with world building, as well as have a very memorable final boss.

 

Thanks for the warning though

I'm not sure there is an Obliteration's domain as such. His prison was destroyed, so that leaves only the Void, where the models buried by his herald's crew presumably end up. And Obliteration himself resides within Tara's hand, but also has control over the Void, so he could be everywhere there, and nowhere at the same time, the Void being his "mind palace" and a literal place in another dimension at the same time...

Sorry for chiming in) As someone who picked Tara's crew for their lore and as a lover of all things weird, mindbendy and Lovecraftian, I would love to see what setting you end up with - if it ends up feeling like I tend to imagine it while also being interactable and interesting for your players, I would be very much impressed.

Good luck with this project!

There is a severe lack of Malifaux fanart in general( People with talent should get on it!

12 hours ago, Dima_v said:

It isn't that much a technical documentation to leave English "Df" or any English if you want a proper translation. 

The cards will also be released sooner or later, Geekwars has been working on it for some time already.

It is, actually. For example: you have some equipment that you need to put together, and the individual parts are marked with English letters - A, B, C, or worse - some sort of code, like XY100500N. And in the assembly guide you see ONLY the translation - А, Б, В, ЭЮ100500Н. Will that guide be of any help to you?

Cards translation is good news though - this will definitely resolve the issue (as long as the translators stick to the same terminology used in the Rules Manual; otherwise it would create even more of a mess).

I skimmed through the Russian rules manual and, gotta say, - thank you for this, Wyrd! This is a great opportunity to recruit more friends who don't know English that well into Malifaux.

Buuut...

OK, some terms I would have translated differently, but hey - different strokes for different folks. A slightly bigger issue is the "normal" translation of terms that are usually just transcribed in the Russian-speaking community: "flip", "reflip", etc.; these terms have been used on forums and YouTube for who knows how long, and seeing their proper translation is somewhat confusing. But, once again, its no big deal - at least more people will start speaking proper Russian language instead of "birdspeech"=\)

The actual problem I have with the Russian version is the translation of stats without mention of the original. I.e., Df became "Зщ" ("защита", protection/defence), and nowhere in the text it is mentioned that the two abbreviations correlate. People who speak English will, most likely, understand what it means, but other folks will just scratch their heads looking for the mysterious "Зщ" on the stat cards. I believe it would have been much better to leave the English abbreviations and terms near the translated ones, in brackets, at least at the first mention. Or put the most used ones in a small, but clearly visible, index in the beginning of the book.

I understand the general consensus that absolutely everything in the text must be translated, but technical documentation (which a rulebook is) is kind of a different beast. Unless Wyrd are planning to release the Russian version of cards, they just sort of made it even more difficult for newcomers to get into the game(

It is not a mistake per se, and as such does not warrant a letter to the customer service. But it is worth mentioning.

Also, I just remembered an example of LGBT representation in Malifaux.

Baritone Lola.

A part of the crew that I would love to own and play, because the Dark Carnival concept is cool (thank you, Ray Bradbury, for my happy childhood).

Not sure why I chime in, but hey - that's what forums are for, right?

The way-too-many-worded rant below is fueled mostly by the fact that, for example, in the Shut Up and Sit Down review of Malifaux, 90% of the comments were not about the game, but about the portrayal of women in it, their (somewhat and mostly justifiably) revealing outfits and (alleged) victimization. The topic is not necessarily related to the topic of the thread, but... I guess I just cannot hold the words within me. Sorry.

A little background first, so that you know where I'm coming from; feel free to skip it (as well as the rest of the post, I guess). I'm from Eastern Europe (not Russia, but culturally close), where political correctness, SJW-ness and "white-people guilt", as well as their counterparts, are not really wide-spread. "Gay" is very much a swear-word to most people here, "negro" (sorry!) is an OK word to use; though the attitude of the younger generation is a bit less easy to put down due to our exposure to the English-speaking parts of the Internet. I won't go into my own views on the subjects since it is not a discussion I would like to have here, on Malifaux forum, but here are some examples, for context. I don't mind the idea of a shirtless male performer in the Colette's theater - I find the concept amusing, and the model itself might be cool (I don't play Arcanists, so I don't know). I was unpleasantly surprised when I learned that a number of people consider Tara and Karina (whom I do play) lesbians, but that is mostly because I don't like the shipping culture in general ("yeah, the character is cool an' all, but WHO DOES HE/SHE SLEEP WITH???", and the general fixation on the idea that, if characters get along well, they MUST have sex. No, they must not necessarily.), and because I like Tara specifically because she does not give a heck about much, including silly hormones. I guess I wouldn't mind if their homosexuality became canon, but I'd really rather it didn't - I'm entirely OK with them being just friends, together till all is Void, not caring about anything or anyone. Also, the ambiguity of lore is cool - it does wonders in the Dark Souls community, it works great here.

Prologue over, now to the point. I got into Malifaux because it was cool. I like the cynical, dark setting, with strong Tarantino and Frank Miller vibes here and there. I like the concept of the Seamus crew (the maypole of controversy in many places on the Internet), because it is cool. I like that one model of an undead mother and her child, whom she apparently has drowned, - because it is cool. I like the Viktorias' crew, because "Kill Bill", which is cool. I like a lot of things about the lore - its dark sense of humor, its stories of questionable people doing questionable things, and tragedies that form a lot of characters into badasses they are. Now, I'm way past my "goth teen" phase (well, "goth" maybe not so much, but "teen" - definitely), but stylish (FICTIONAL) violence and strong characters with questionable morals (which are FICTIONAL) still appeal to me. Seamus, the mother, other guys in the lore are not good people, but they are good, interesting characters.

(Also: not everything has to evolve around sexuality. I don't mind scandily-clad male or female characters, as long as they are badass and look nice as models. I don't mind Nekima's "battle bikini", not because I'm horny, but because, to me, she is the embodiment of passion, wrath and sexuality (she is, first and foremost, a mother, after all. Of monsters); also, the model is beautiful, and I would rather collect and play with beautiful models (Jack Daw's crew also counts - my definition of "beauty" is somewhat broad). Some of the old models (first-edition Taelor, for example) were silly, but the new realistic approach is quite great. All in all, I don't buy expensive, for my income, miniatures to masturbate to them.)

So. As someone from a highly conservative society, I wouldn't mind playing a gay character, a transsexual character, etc., - as long as they are COOL in some way. And Malifaux, as a setting, has a lot of cool things going for it, and Wyrd is cool for creating them. "Cool", to me, includes not giving a flip about society's opinion. Taking criticism is fine, considering the fans' wishes and opinions is fine; that's why the second edition models look way better than the first-edition ones. Dancing around certain topics is MORE than fine - it gives fans space for speculation without inviting controversy. But...

...

Please, Wyrd, please - just remain cool. OK? Do what you think is good, not what others think is. Feel free to release a character who is a racial stereotype of Ukrainian people: give him a woven shirt and an "oseledets" hairstyle, let him wave a bottle of "gorilka" in one hand, a piece of "salo" (bacon, sort of) in the other and a Molotov coctail in his teeth. Make him gay/trans/whatever, if you feel that it's necessary. Just make him COOL, and people will buy him/her/it in an instant!

Please, never change, Wyrd. Please, remain cool, and keep giving us stories of badasses doing badass things. That's all I ask:)

Kimberly, thank you - completely missed it somehow. Unfortunately, I don't think I would be able to playtest it, since I live in a God-forgotten city in a God-forgotten country of Ukraine=/

Awesome news, anyway! Still, there is a huge potential for more.