Sol_Sorrowsong

I'm pledging my gigants. I didn't get to them enough last month to call them done, so I'm doing them, a bultungin and some ice markers.  

@Boomstick Where did you get your piano?

14 hours ago, Gaston said:

@Sol_Sorrowsong

Since the TN of the Mv Duel is based on your own duel, Euripides can use a single 13 twice (Old Ways) to pop 4 damage on a model with a TN 19 Mv Duel (hard to pass).

True. In the right circumstance and positioning that is very nice. Against necropunks or Rusty taking 1dmg to deal 2dmg each is maybe less value.

8 hours ago, gozer said:

I've found Savages to be generally a good counter for terrifying and manipulative. Consider that Euripides, Thoon, Primordial Magic, Cyclops and Geryon can all do damage through tactical actions - some of their best actions too - without actually targeting models and thus circumvent those abilities entirely.

That is true, there are ways in the crew to work sideways against a terrifying or manipulative model.  Perhaps with time I'll see better use for when to do the chip damage vs swinging fists. A lot comes down to placing pillars properly and how easily the opponent can shrug off a MV duel or 1-2 dmg.  

In answer to your first question, Primordial gave Thoon the incorporeal to get  through a wall of a house blocking part of my deployment so I'd have a more spread flank and challenge the woods T2 potentially.  Because of the speed of his attack primordial wasn't moving terribly efficiently and was going back and forth just putting incorporeal on someone needing to move through severe or impassible or who was under aggressive fire from anyone but Levi.

Hey all you savages out there! 

I had another challenging game with Euripides against Leveticus that I thought I'd share.  Again, not the best match up for Euripides, but its good to see what are challenges too for him.

Wedge deployment, Reckoning with Claim Jump, Take Prisoner, Search the ruins, Vendetta, Assassinate. We both took Search ruins and Claim jump.  Final score was 8-3 to Levi with me conceding end of T4 because I would be instantly wiped T5.

My crew: E & P, Thoon, Geryon (IR), Cyclops, Gigant x2, Bultungin, 7ss

Levi: Levi & waif x2, Rusty Alice, Desolation Engine, Student of conflict, Necropunk x3, 7ss

I haven't played against Levi in M3E and only once or twice in M2E so mistakes were made.  

Main points are this,

Levi has irreducible damage (ignore shield/Incorp) and can ignore H2K. 

Lots of Unmade (tome) with several built in, doing 1 dmg when attacked.

Entropy - doing 1 dmg when activating while engaged.

Aboms - prevent healing in aura.

Levi, Rusty, Des. Engine can all hit really hard.

Punks can scheme well with leaps, have armor+1.

Usually, between using the old ways, cheating, and frozen vigor you have a good enough defense from attacks, but it becomes less useful when every turn you take 2-3 points of damage between old ways and passive damage from Levi's crew.  The passives are especially brutal because the happen when shielded has gone or before it is gathered.  Euripides has some HP to tank but most others start dropping quite quickly. I was able to drop the Des. Engine pretty fast, and the abom replacement, but due to terrain and probably poor positioning I couldn't get close enough to do damage to punks until after they charged me the turn prior.  Rusty got fast from student and with rapid fire, put down my Geryon T1 even with butteryfly jumping (I'll grant I thought my cover/concealment would be more effective than it was, so got too close perhaps; also wedge deployment with 50mms  )

I needed that second cyclops and probably serena again because I really needed some heals with the crew.  Ice pillars were good this game at giving cover and used for search the ruins (until my cyclops died), but they can't keep shooters or leaping necropunks from doing their jobs.  I did engage both Levi and Rusty at different points at 2" which was good for me and I needed to do more of it, but sadly with being out activated and getting extra action on rusty with Fast from student, it was an uphill battle.

9 hours ago, Ogid said:

Why ancient pact in eurpides and 2 eldritch magic? You get no extra card with it and 3 sources of condition removal seems a bit overkill... I do like the idea of Eldritch Magic in the totem tho.

Ancient pact for the extra initiative and keeping the main man from getting a black joker.  The 2x eldritch was cheaper than a bultungin. But was probably more than needed after all.  I was worried about slows and serena 3" didn't seem useful enough to get where it was needed with so many 50mm bases.

9 hours ago, Ogid said:

Is this legal? Molly can only give extra activations to activated models; the crooligan can't teleport to the other side of the map and then activate a second time there.

I must have misremembered the details here. I'm sure my opponent played correctly. I do know he teleported, and dropped W of the central tower on T1, the scheme markers maybe came early T2 actually, or Archie could have Leaped/walked/schemed.

9 hours ago, Ogid said:

This is a very though match up for Thoon

Yes, in hindsight I would have done better to drop him and the eldritch magic from cyclops and grab 2x bultungin to hunt crooligans/scheme.  I was worried they'd get one shot by archie though so went with the h2k and frozen vigor model instead. I also considered the rougarou suggestion, but not having played it before, nor having the model I didn't want to slow down our game more than I was with a new crew and my own history of over thinking.  It looks fearsome, but I did worry about getting it into contact, again due to all those large bases. 

10 hours ago, Ogid said:

Serena is a very good model, but she has the same problem than Thoon in this match up; min damage 2 versus so many H2W...

I liked her for her ranged attack, ignoring armor would have been wonderful against necrotic machine and was good against the effigy.  Sadly the forest was a big issue, both for her mv and getting neg flips without focus.  The placement trigger seemed really great also, so I could launch enemies towards waiting giants.  I'll consider her again.

One last thing I'll add is that Terrifying and manipulative are interesting challenges for Euripides crew.  WP is pretty standard at 5 for most models, but the abilities really kill Old ways utility.  Either you take 1 dmg to pass terrifying with that 12 you have on top of your pile, or you flip and pray its a 6 or better (and lose the 12 forever). Archie had terrifying (so does Rogue necro) and Sloth had manipulative.  Manipulative is a little different because if you do focus it is actually often exactly what you want with a big giant. From a negative, you got to a straight flip and can use old ways. So, if I have a high card on my discard, I get the benefit of that 12 for attack, and I get a positive on the damage from focus!

Hey All,

I had my game on Saturday against Molly. Im not going to give a batrep but talk main thoughts.

To set the picture, we played Flank, Plant Explosives with Claim jump, search ruins, deliver a message, vendetta, and dig their graves.

Crews were: Euripides w/ ancient pact, Primordial magic (w/ eldritch magic), Thoon, Serena Bowman, Cyclops 1 (w/ eldritch magic), cyclops 2, gigant. 7ss (deliver message, claim jump [serena])

Molly, necrotic machine, sloth, archie, dead rider, effigy, crooligan x2, night terror. 6ss (deliver message, search ruins)

To picture the board: in my corner (SW) there was ruins with ht3 fence (cover) and a tree to the E.  in the center of the map, a large round impassible tower. NW of the tower a forest, SE another forest and further off a ht1 fence. E of the tower was another ruins with ht3 cover for mollys crew and in the NE a large river (severe) that made his starting position really tough. I got lucky on being attacker.  It didnt matter too much for him because Archie has leap, the rider is unimpeded, the night terror has flight, and others could deploy almost over the river due to flank deployment.  In game, really only sloth got left behind....typical.

My goal once I saw the line up, was to outpunch archie and the dead rider with min3 swinging savages and then secure the middle for claim jump and get a point or two on strat, scheme, and a point or two for deliver.  I thought if I could get 6pts I might be able to pull a win or at least tie. I did not have a good solution to his schemers. I knew they were fast but I did not know just how far the molly shenanigans went.

T1 Molly gave an extra activation to two crooligans and one of them got fast from someone also. Discards allowed the night terror to push off and away and after archie leaped and ran to the NW side of the central tower, a crooligan teleported, ran, and placed a bomb and schemed (fast), then ran and schemed again on its second activation.  All in all 3 bombs were placed T1.  I was gathering SE side of the tower, and fanning out towards SE forest where the night terror had dropped its bomb. I had several pillars up and molly was not threatening them yet.

It all got a bit too tarpooled in the SE area.  I over extended the primordial magic to pick up a bomb after Euripides killed the crooligan who had planted it and it died T3. The pillars were helpful for cyclops heals and I actually got good plink damage from a combo of Euripides pillar mv duels and cyclops bonus action, but sloth caught up to archie and healed him for 3 easily (no slow for archie) with necrotic machine doing a bit to help also.  Dead rider got low, but I made mistakes not focusing when I should have and he wasted some valuable actions using tokens as crows for damage reduction and killed a gigant and cyclops with bonus action damage.  (side note, both cyclops and dead rider have bonus actions that do undefendable damage, yet just now am I thinking about how during the game I felt bad when he killed my gigant and cyclops with it but when I killed his effigy, I did not think he would feel the same.  Unstoppable dmg is pretty harsh. He got better trades, but the cyclops did about 9-12 dmg during the game with their bonus too.

Serena never got into the center for claim jump, too many bodies on 50mm bases got in there and were not moving.  She did do some good early damage against the effigy and it was going to be killed after being placed 6" up with the trigger, but the dead rider was able to double walk and ride with me on the effigy to push and place it to the safety of the forest where it was out of gigant boulder range and then was healed to full by the necrotic machine.  Damn.

My opponent is a very skilled player and I really appreciated playing him because it makes me focus on trying to hit my objectives more and stick with a plan, as often bad things are happening.  I would say the speed of scheme runners in a Forgotten crew are a huge perk and the discard/draw mechanic Molly has is a really interesting playstyle. I think that actually this is one place Euripides does well against her compared to some other masters.  Due to his "old ways" he does not rush through his hand so fast, in fact I often carry over 1 or 2 cards to discard or keep for the next turn.  This helped because Molly loves to hit models when they cannot cheat against her irreducible damage.  I was hit by her passive a few times, but it was not too egregious until late T3 T4, when I had few wounds left to maneuver with.  Euripides does lack defensive capabilities in his crew. Shielded and heal 1 are nice, but are best to offset the "old ways" and not to tank min3 slaps with tentacle or sickle.  

MVPs were Euripides for getting severe 6 dmg to kill a crooligan outright and 4 blast on archie (who healed it, but still), and placing several pillars to chip at necrotic, effigy, and block molly LOS for a bit. He also delivered the message to molly and serena delivered the second part with a scheme later. Cyclopses(?) also did rather well, despite being df4. Critical heals on primordial magic and the main crew were top notch, and plink damage was also very nice.

Loosers of the day were the gigant, who got charged and died to the dead rider before activating T2, and Thoon. I really want to like Thoon, but he does not have a lot going for him and it makes me sad.  The main issue is he can only pull towards himself with ice pillars or models and there is nothing for pulling a model into a pillar, only the other way around.  I know it does not make sense for him to push an enemy model with his attack, and I get to keep with his chain hook idea he should not pull ice pillars, but I figured Magic would be a good enough answer to that problem.  But I digress.  Without change, his tactical ability is hard to set up and even then, only so effective.  Perhaps I am trying to pigeon hole him into something he is not.  Maybe I need to try him as an anti scheme runner instead of in the thick of things.  His attack stats are good, but his damage is low compared to other cyclops and geryon who cost less.  The big noise is his tome trigger for making a pillar from a model, but against molly it was easy to break it open with all the extra activations and 8" marker removal she has.  

I am going to try him on a wing next game and see how that fairs.  I can see him getting some work in turning crooligans to popsicles and counter scheming with mv 6, but in the meat of it, was not his best place. I also wish he had a better bonus action.  It is nice, but hardly every useable in my games.

The game ended end of T4 6-3 for Molly.  She easily got search the ruins with 1 crooligan while everyone was busy and tied up or activated, she got 3 vp from the strat and 1 vp from deliver a message. I got 1 from strat and two from deliver a message. 

Request: Under reference, a section for terrain types would be great for newer players, without opening the rule book each time.  Especially cover and concealment and shadow rules, I know can get mixed up, but having Hazardous, blocking, impassible, etc under one drop down list would be really great for some.  I know when I'm at a table I can ask my opponent or answer if they have a question I know, but when alone or if two newer players are setting up a game it is nice for them to have a quick reference to Forest (blocking, severe, concealing) and to click what those mean if they forget.

So, what I'm hearing is not a lot of use outside the "Surprise! Nephalim attack!"  He can lead.

Can you run a henchman as a leader, and then hire a secondary master?

Hello Outcasts,

I've been looking at how to bring the lone nephalim into my crews and I'm not seeing his use too much.  Perhaps he's better with others (I've heard of hamlin play), but I have Parker, Von Schill, and Zipp and would like to bring Barbaros along sometime because the alt. model is so cool.  

He's versitile and his card makes him seem fine as a lone warrior, while the keyword folk due their things, but I always opt for more keyword synergy and he remains shelved.

Anyone use him to good effect, especially in these crews?

Thanks!

On 8/26/2019 at 10:45 AM, Ming said:

The wording is a bit ambigous. Is this model killed anyway or does discarding a card saves this model from being killed?

It is a little bit, but I believe the "and be killed" is meant as separate to the discard or scheme option.

On 8/26/2019 at 10:56 AM, Barbagianni said:

RAI should be (discard) or (drop marker and be killed). At least m2e doc worked more or less that way.

I recall that in M2E, there was no option and if you used the flintlock where parker could see him, the doc was dead. The imagine them firing near simultaneously. Parker not taking chances when he see some cold iron coming from the doc's bag.

1 hour ago, JellyRoll said:

I lost 2 Bandidos and the Prospector, he lost 2 Adult nephilim and the Henchman

The Wouku lived?!  I'd have thought the black blood would have killed him off, so impressive.  That combat finesse is mighty fine.

Nekima is definitely a strong pick into reckoning and against gunslingers like parker, they close the gap well.  That said, the strategy would be to put bandidos and the wouku in places as bait, where mad dog, and parker and the others can take shots at whoever comes in for the kill.  Emmisary is pretty tanky and a good roadblock. He can push himself or others out of combat, leaving an activated nephalim sitting pretty to get blasted to hell.  Suits for triggers on mad dog and making sure the cheaper models like bandidos leave a scheme near him for Fast is helpful.  I usually have one bandido scheme, then run and gun for movement and a possible shot.

I'm not sure what happened that Mad dog had to do all the running himself, sadly that took a lot of your firepower away from the crew.  The other key is trying to get Trigger Finger off on both bandidos, before they die. 

As for the prospector, I'd have used him as bait too or a scheme runner.  Having him sit around waiting isn't doing you any good.  The soulstones are nice, but Nekima needs a target to flush her into the line of fire.  If you'd been able to put 2-3 people focusing a single model it is probably dead.

Sounds like you blew your resources all pretty quickly.  So advice here is just to think if its worth it or let whatever it is die/take the hit and use the cards/ss to punish later.  That just comes with playing the game.

Much respect for the effort you put in. These are fun to read over.  Of course balancing is going to be a long and lengthy process with lots of quirks to work out, but if you're having fun with it in your circle all the power to you.

The two things that stick out to me are of course the similarities to Titania in theme, and the brutality of having Zoraida join up with the Soothsayer. 😝

I get the markers are different than undergrowth, and Iris' vines are more specific than the Queen's forest, but the feeling is so close that I almost wonder if Iris' lore would be more suited to adapt to a different faction like arcanist (or outcast, they like roses).  She's come into powers she is learning to control from earthside and she can summon vines and cobblestones into gamin and a golem. It seems like the arcanists would take her underwing more likely than a pack of neverborn (even if exiled by the Queen). In fact, I'd feel like Vel and the trolls would be afraid of another plant wielding woman. 

It is yours to do as you wish of course so you do not need to kill your darlings, it just seems a better fit and removes the pesky problem of other neverborn hires (though waldgiest seem like they'd have to be added to key word too).

Thanks again for the interesting content!

14 hours ago, gozer said:

seven 40mm models take

50mm!

13 hours ago, gozer said:

What do you guys think about Lyssa?

They are one I'll need to just put on the table (proxy) to figure out.  Maybe this will be the game to do it. Idk.  I'm not sure this is their best match up though, but against other crews, especially high movement crews the staggering is going to be great.  Point cost is good for df/wp/mv 5 model, health is low, but avg for cost. I get a lot out of my Bultungin and I'm not sure the Lyssa would match them as scheme runners.  Mv 6 + 4" push usually will treat me better than incorporeal. However, I do get that they have more directional options due to incorp. so won't get boxed in, but with the bultungin push, I usually get out of any scenario.  

Bultungins' marker isn't going to help a lot vs molly but old ways is going to help more than misery, though frozen vigor is nice for lyssa (wish bultungins got that...). I think its going to come down to actions.

Lyssa have a great built in trigger on Claws, but will only get the +1 damage if a gigant gets its trigger first on a boulder toss. Not often happening. Bring it might be useful to get some big guys up the field, but an 8 is a lot to ask.  Best ability though, and Startle is nice to toss out on the chance and will synergize nice with pillar mv duels.  So actually, this is where she'll shine potentially.  Pulling Euripides up T1 so he can get pillars in better spots, and then giving staggered to an enemy T2 before they get hit with pillars.

As for gigants,  I really want to make use of shattering shove.  Placing a pillar in deployment T1 and then getting a gigant to trigger this to send an enemy back to the pillar could be a really great thing.  Molly away from her crew? Position it right and they'll need to remove it in order to leave the corner you box them into.  Make another pillar outside of it and they need to move and remove it also!

That said, the set-up is tricky.

Any thoughts on Angeleyes as a hire?  She's 9ss but long range and a nice and crit strike gives possible min4 with a stone. She could remove a crooligan fairly easily. Plus has her sidearm.  Night terrors would be more annoying with concealment and extra health, but either way, a focused shot would do the trick.

Ya, Hans is a great situational hire.  If the sight lines are there, he could be very useful to deny and assist with the strategy. Just depends who you need as your work horses and who will be ok on the fringe.

Like most games this will probably all go out the window once you see the board and opponent's crew.  So what can you focus on without that information?  Schemes that the crew can do well or can deny well.  

I don't play Daw, so can't talk about that, but I like the way you are going with Parker so far.

Strat: Reckoning

Mad Dog, Wouku, Sue, Convict gunslinger, Midnight stalker are all decent for this. Kill.

Schemes: Detonate Charges

This isn't a bad scheme as parker can make a friendly model put down a scheme easy enough, and Hodgey can get one down with his push.  The trick is to not need to pick them up for all the fast, so its a give or take. Prospector is good here too (more below). Ultimately, you'll need to see if the strat or scheme is going to be easier to focus because these counter each other a bit by leaving people alive to get that second point.

Deliver a message: Also a bit counter productive if you're trying to get kills, but some masters are tough to take down. Parker's crew has good mobility so you should get into contact easy enough and again Parker can make someone take the interact action to get that message delivered.

Breakthrough: Midnight stalker, Bandidos, wouku are all good options.  This for me always depends on the board a lot.

Power Ritual: If your scheme runners can beat up his, this is a good option into reckoning, if the other way around, you don't want them sitting still.

Vendetta: Can get a point or two from a bandido, but they also die so quick. This one clearly relies on the other team composition.

Overall, your crew choice is pretty good.  I might swap a bandido for a prospector. You'll start down a stone, but gain it first turn and it will make detonate the charges both easier for you and harder for the opponent, which means you can focus on denying the other options more and they have to think what you might do more.  So I'd swap a bandido and then make the wouku the flex model with sue (or convict GS as preferred) or midnight stalker, as suits against the other team.

Heh, or a trainwreck.   Good suggestions. Honestly, if I was playing in a serious manner (not saying I'm not trying!) I would not have picked Euripides into this set. I did so because I want/need more games with him.  Strat: Plant explosives. Deploy: Flank. Scheme: Claim jump, search ruins, vendetta, deliver a message, dig graves.

The strategy will be a bit of a wash if I take bultungins.  They are so fast and with oldways, I can usually survive into turn 3 and they can rush up to 16" per turn thanks to deadly pursuit.  Crooligans will more likely avoid than fight so I think there will be tied bombing from minions.  Not much I can stop though probably unless I can get some lucky kills early on.

Search ruins with cyclops pillars/scheme markers is pretty good. Bultungins can help if they live. 

Claim jump is ok if I think I'll be able to slug it out in the middle, but I'm worried about how much I'll drop from passive molly damage.

I'm not sure about vendetta or deliver but I think I can score a point at least in them or dig graves, 2 in any might be too much though...

I've got something planned for Rotten Harvest, but I want to finish off my Euripides crew also, so I'm pledging a couple gigants, and thoon, and a bultungin who needs some paint. I also have some ice pillar markers that I need to finish so lets see how that goes.  So 30 something ss this month if I can pull it off.

Also, thanks @Caedrus for creating the motivation to get some grey off the shelf!  This has been really great to keep the brush wet and the models moving.

Ya, I'm not expecting much. The other player is also quite experienced. To be fair, I should have expected the molly and chosen someone else, but I'm on a Euripides kick and need to get more games under my belt.  This will be a good learning experience either way and I hope I can bring some of that back to you all on what to do (or not do :P) when facing a challenge for the big boy. 

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Molly cap rip through pillars both by using her card draw ability, or sending crooligans to tear them down since they're destructible. As a Molly player, I'd suggest bringing some strength to the table that isn't reliant on pillars.

The other thing is she can only do it at 8" (13" with a move), so if you can make use of pillars far outside her range, that helps.

Yup.  Ultimately, I think if I can get her to move and drop a pillar then I'm winning out. I'll give her two cards and lose a pillar for 2 actions from the master.  Crooligans will be annoying too, but hopefully more content trying to scheme than attacking pillars. I do wish Gigants has some way to generate a pillar though. 

I've played more spread in my games than what pillars would seem to ask for, so my gigants get whittled down from oldways instead of taking blows, but without a frozen pillar to gain vigor from, they get awfully dead by turn 5.

That said, against Perdita's crew I had one hold up the Brutal emissary for 3 rounds just because of old ways and hand cards.  I'll take a guaranteed 11 over a positive flip any day (reference to having an 11 ontop of discard vs Brutal's greatsword)

.

I'm going to have to second Seamus, he dances to the sound of his own fiddle, and so you don't really know when or where he'll strike next or why.  Maybe he just needs more belles, maybe he saw you being too cheerful for your own good. Maybe he was just bored and thought you'd give a nice chase.  If I was in Malifaux, I'd steer far far away from any haunts he might enjoy. Better grabbed by a gator than find myself in the wrong alley after dark.

I've not found that corpses have been the best for ice pillars.  2" is really short range for the bonus action.  Ok, you can run a BBS and lyssa together, but that seems awfully expensive grouping just to get a pillar up.  Instead, just hire a cyclops.  I also feel that pillars are of mixed gains.  I've played two games with Euripides now, the second was against Perdita and had a rather annoying Papa Loco who kept blowing them up.  Even with him taking two out on average per turn, I was getting several up from killing a model with Euripides (or in 8" of him) or by summoning them with his actions.  I didn't have any corpse generators, so most corpse pillars or corpse markers were in less than useful positions, but I had a few in the mid field that gave some help.  @Ogid, the ideas are good and I like thinking out of the box with changlings and your healing suggestion with Serena seems excellent (add to list of models to get), but I'm not sure I'm sold on pillar generation from corpses as a hiring strategy.

That said, I'll be playing Molly soon, so I'm in for an uphill battle keeping pillars on the board, but corpses should be plentiful! Healing will be needed, and I need to find a way to make pillars that Molly won't rip down right away and give her cards.

Perhaps the rulebook could clarify it more precisely, or list a complete set of keywords.  For what I believe is intended is that the original 

On 9/20/2019 at 1:52 PM, MajorUndead said:

(such as by saying “one Fireteam” or “only the targeted Fireteam”)

 does not limit the use only when it says "one" or "only the targeted" but uses them as examples "such as...".  

My meaning is therefore when they use wording like "place this fireteam" or "place it..(referring to target fireteam NOT unit)", those mentions are specifically quantifying the fireteam in the singular, which trumps the placement rule for all squads.

I hear you that the rule

1 hour ago, MajorUndead said:

"When a Fireteam from a Squad is affected by a place effect, every Fireteam in the Squad is placed"

seems strange when we're seeing more exceptions here, and that the above "place it" could also refer to a unit at other times and not a fireteam specifically, which causes us to look at other rules for the clarity we seek.  It isn't perfect, but should follow logically for the most part.

This may be an area with the most trouble since placement is key for both GH and BM allegiances. The rulebook rule I'm certain is in place due to portal usage, but why it became the standard instead of the exception itself, I do not know.

48 minutes ago, solkan said:

I think there was a trend for a bit to built "Maker Spaces", with stuff like laser cutters and 3D printers.  Is that still a thing?

Our public library has a 3D printer, but they were not happy with my proposal when I asked if they could make me a variety of markers. It was only around 100 pieces! 😅