Cadaverousbirth

No one has it built in, but the Peacekeeper has it on a Tome trigger. Ryle and the Guardian have the same trigger.  Armor ignore is a faction weakness. 

Our best bet has always been Perdita. Unfortunately the highest armor concentration by faction are the Arcanists, and they pick Mei Fang for that reason. 

47 minutes ago, Ravenphoenixxx said:

It seems to me that the hounds are kind of an auto take with McCabe. I suppose that it really comes down to the schemes and strats? I am a newbie player, if you couldn't tell ;-)

Like all things it all comes down to the strats and schemes. Some pools will punish having all the puppers about, Hunting Party for example, and the super weasel can fill Luna's roll quite well with its own usefulness. On paper I think GG2017 will see Luna played the majority of the time since most pools will be pretty scheme oriented.

Ten Thunders. Second main faction thus a second post!

Buffing:

High River Monks. They're garbage. Hot, stinking garbage. There was a thread about buffing them that I started (you could say there's a theme here) with a lot of good ideas to help them. 

Yan Lo. The old man needs some love. He's only good in niche situations and if he's your favorite master you're in for a rough time in 75% of the time. Making his schtick not be so late-game intensive might help him get more flexibility. 

Brewmaster. See Yan. Also, Gremlins, booooo.

Cuddling softy:

Sensei Yu. This one hurts because I love him so much. He's expensive but can do so much for a crew that he was near auto-include no matter the scheme or strats. Increasing his TN's by one could be enough...

Ten Thunder Bros. The go-to scheme runner that blows everyone out of the water. Dropping the +1Df on their Tome trigger would be fine. Getting Df7 so easily on a cost 5 model is rough. 

Yasunori. This one I haven't used or seen in person but I've seen enough on the internet to know he should be 13ss. He isn't a Rider, he's a Nekima.  

I can do half of this right now. 

Guild buffing:

Guild Guard. Bring their stats up to the average of 5 instead of below average 4. Not being able to shoot well until they're a reanimated corpse is laughable - yes I get the joke but for gameplay purposes it is depressing. 

Santiago Ortega. The only Family member that doesn't see play even post-errata. We had a thread on getting this guy upgraded a while back where a lot of people presented great zero cost upgrades for him that I can't remember now. Just make him not suck, please. His model is great but after one game it collects dust.

Guild Riflemen. Giving them a similar upgrade (ignoring restrictions) to the Ox Mages where they get cheaper when you take two or three. They're so easy to counter and take up a big chunk of points. Because you never take just one anyway, this could make them see more play. I don't think they need an EXTRA bump with the Ox's damage reduction discard, which I think is too much on a zero cost fix upgrade. 

Cuddling:

...Nothing? If this was pre-errata there would be the same ones listed here that already got reduced. I'm struggling to think of a Guild model that the community cries about now. There are more models needing a step up to get to par than there are excellent models who could take a step back. 

I always win with 10T McCabe. 

I always lose with Guild McCabe. 

It's all in the super weasel. 

13 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

At the cost of giving that to another model that it would be better on and one of his own attacks, while also not giving you a second mulligan or the ability to make any of your models fast or even any enemy model slow.

...uhhhh, I'm not sure if I'm reading this right but the Emissary's card (ace) discard for Focus+2 is his own thing and there isn't any way that Yu can give that out? I'm confused on your first point here. Shadow can also give a friendly model Fast that has an upgrade (not Lynch sure but Huggy, Graves, Samurai etc) if you need it. His zero for a 4" push with a card draw trigger is good too.

Shadow vs. Yu is a very interesting debate and they both have their pros and cons. Yu can push more and hand out Fast/Slow but all these abilities cost more (two sixes) to hit TNs and he is also a point more in stones. Shadow has less effective pushes (still present) but also has higher raw damage and different crew synergy with giving out Blasts. Illuminated getting +/+ against Brilliant targets with Blasts is funny. 

It comes down to scheme selection for me. When Hunting Party was suited I almost always took Shadow. I can very easily see the case for Yu now in GG2017 and double Mulligan is crazy good.  

I hope we all know what "penguin" really means. 

Creepy Killer penguin 

Nightmare, Mimic

Sixes across the board, Ht2

Incorporeal, Terrifying (Living) 13, From the Shadows

-Df(Ram) trigger: Honk, Honk!

When this model is targeted by a successful  action, it may discard a card to push 2" in any direction. The action is resolved from this model's current location. If this model is no longer a viable target the action fails.

-Sharpened Teeth Ml6 vs Df 1"2/4/5

-Infect, Poison +1 for each crow

-Voracious Appetite, this model may discard a card to take this action again 

- Come Play With Me Ca7 vs Wp Rg8 

Push target 6" towards this model. This action must declare triggers if able  

-We All Float Down Here, the target's controller must discard one card and one soulstone. If they cannot, the target is Paralyzed.

- Got'cha!, target model cannot perform any actions against this model until this model's next activation.

-Pounce, take a Ml attack action against the target if it ended the push within this model's engagement range  

---

I don't know if making it a Nightmare would be OP with Dreamer but that and Mimic are the only keywords I could think that would fit. Cost would probably be 8-9 probably. 

The cheapest Henchmen we can get are Yamaziko and Queeg with McCabe. Huggy is a great pick,  I think he would really help this scheme. Cheapest Enforcer is Mr. Tannen followed by Chiaki and the rest are 8+ including Samurai.

This might buff up fluffy Lynch crews with Tannen and Graves, and including a Samurai in there for ace hunting fits pretty well. 22 stones between the three of them, not including Huggy or upgrades, isn't a bad investment when they can still do other stuff and Huggy can always come back so losing one doesn't mean you auto-lose 1-2 VPs. I like it. Tannen is the most vulnerable but his discard-to-cheat aura can really strain a hand and help keep him around.

Yamaziko makes me sweat. Losing her is extremely likely as you announce Last Stand on turn 1 and your opponent will salivate at Df4 and moves to deny all the points and a scheme runner.

Last Stand. Arguably the hardest new scheme in GG2017. How best to tackle it with Thunders? Can you take it without immediately telegraphing it? I doubt it. 

My first thought is Kang and Izamu and something else, likely Sensei Yu kept in back with Shenlong. Any other suggestions? 

12 hours ago, Corn said:

@Cadaverousbirth Models like the Executioner just seem like a bad fit for Lucius, the synergy is really just limited to a Commanding Presence and What Lackeys are For.

While I've played a lot of different Lucius crew builds, they always focus on taking advantage of as many of Lucius' buffs as possible, I don't like models that aren't reaping those   flips and commands, or able to benefit defensively from the  from Red Tape.  Especially when guild now have such good access to potent minions- I just always find myself reaching for minions when I play Lucius- Death Marshals, Stalkers, Hunters, Guardians, Thralls, Austringers, Pathfinders, etc.  If I do reach for an Enforcer it will likely be something like Mr. Graves or the Doppleganger which take advantage of everything except Issue Command.

The big exception to this is the Brutal Emissary- Brutal Conflux's  aura stacks really well with Lucius' in a minion heavy crew and the healing trigger on A Cage for All makes for an excellent support piece which emphasizes the crews I want to bring with Lucius.  The more  flips you can get for your minions the more effective Lucius' out of activation attacks becomes, and the less reliant on your hand you are.  Or if you are really cool you can have it jump in with Diestro.

At the end of the day, Lucius only really feels worth it if his crew is benefiting to the nines from all of his different support abilities.

 

Chalk it up to different playstyles but I find it hard to fit everything within Lucius' bubble of fun in most games. Too much crew synergy can be a trap and stretch Lucius' abilities too thin, I've found. I do agree that Brutal is great with Lucius, he helps a lot. Agreeing with @Ludvig as well, bubbling up in my meta is usually a horrible idea, and most board setups wont allow it or make that very difficult regardless. Two Thralls, Scribe and the TWarrior have been enough of an entourage for me, everything else goes out and does their thing.

For some anecdotal evidence, I took the Exec against Titania for the juicy gobbling of scheme markers for free attacks. It so happened that Titania ran the other direction so the Exec ate up The Tooth, Lilitu, and Mr. Graves. His only support was an Austringer and a couple lucky flips - min 5 with a Ram is mean. Ready to Work really lets them be independent and hunt things away from everything else. The only master synergy they really want is Fast, Nimble or Precise from Nellie, McCabe, and McMourning respectively.

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

My only problem with 2 thralls in hunting party is that I struggle with it's trying to get those points myself.   

With Lucy and the Thralls (great band name) I'd avoid Hunting Party and take more schemey schemes. Thralls can take a hit and interact like crazy, giving each other free attacks, in Lucius' bubble. Guild still loves HP but you'd probably want to build a crew around it more. Thralls are all denial for that scheme. 

@Jam Warrior I love your username. Trikk answered with the highest level of accuracy. 

I'll echo @Dogmantra here and say Izamu would be a good pick for you. He's the tanky tarpit to the minion bully (Betti) and the annihilator (Yas). His slowness is his only drawback which Shen and Yu fix easily. Misaki also appreciates a model that can hold people down and stay alive long enough for her to circle in and do her thing. 

Yasunori should be all Asami needs for a beater since she can also summon Yokai to do a lot of damage. 

The Shen and Yu combo team is so versatile it almost doesn't matter what other models you bring with. My standard list hasn't changed since the Emissary came out. 

Shenlong, Wondering, Misdirection, either Servant or Recalled Training depending

Peasant 

Sensei Yu, Promising, LRM 0ss upgrade

Emissary, Shen conflux

TTBs x2

Low River Monk

The last slot is flexible. Usually it's the Lone Swordsman with RT but this can be switched out for Yin/Ototo/Izamu/Kang or any beater depending on the situation. Without this slot the crew doesn't have as much punch as I normally like, and anything except the Gatling gun guy whose name I don't feel fit to remember, will do well. 

3 hours ago, Tris said:

But the Executioner has higher min damage and ignores def triggers - these are still things in his favour

Why not both? Lucius with his double Thrall buddies and an Exec someplace else. He works fine independently (being careful of Wp duels) and can really dish out the pain without Lucius' help. Armor makes everyone cry though, pray for Crows. 

If you're going pure Guild, which is much more viable with the Emissary, I'd take the Attendant every time. He's just so easily replaced with the metal Gamin and Arcanist Assets has that great heal on its card which is pretty integral for my Hoff play. Paying five stones total for Ca8 and healing is worth it every time. Plus Howard with Armor+2 and Numb to the World...hard to pass up. 

What a time to be alive. Maybe it will get update don't in June for the next errata ?

You forgot the Metal Gamin. The true Hoff totem. 

4 minutes ago, Corn said:

 If you need to enhance the bubble even quicker remember that a Guild Hound or Rifleman can companion to himself, for quick successive (0) actions.  Advance your Armoured  up the board, and say "come at me bro"

The Reactivating Companioning yourself trick was FAQ'd to not work anymore.

1 hour ago, Adran said:

I always thought the best thing about witch hunt was that it required you to be somewhere that would often give you cover. If you aren't in cover then he can rapid fire you, and if you are in cover he can just burn you. Granted, Damage by burning if often less powerful than actual damage (although not always, Riders, incorporeal and Frame for murder are all things, as is Sonnia...) but using  a stat of 5 to do 4 damage is fairly decent. You only need to tie to do that 4 damage so it is less card intensive than a damaging attack would be. 

Its not always the attack you want to use, but its presence on the board is something that potentially redefines the enemy placement. 2 ss might be a little too expensive for it all the time, but on occasions it is worth it. 

I have to disagree here. It makes Sam soooo expensive (Peacekeeper cost as trikk said) for a situational ability that the opponent can easily avoid, whether with board placement or by cheating through that Ca5 which is garbage if you need it to happen.

Make it a zero cost upgrade that gives Burning +1, maybe a tome trigger for more Burning, and call it a day. Cheap, effective, themey, and doesn't hurt a model no one is taking (in general) anyway.

That's brings up the old summoner's montra of "don't hire what you can summon." Desperate Mercs are worse but it's like comparing a broken shoe to a broken lamp. Which is better?

Whiskey Golem ready fits the poison Golem criteria I think. Likes it, gives it out, has a good time. 

Bad Juju is the swamp/mud Golem which (and by no means am I sure I'm right) is the most classic version of the Golem who was made out of clay. Probably. 

Water golem? 

On 2/19/2017 at 5:39 AM, Cadaverousbirth said:

Playing one of these guys tonight because of this topic. I've never seen a reason for them before, but being an annoying support model who dies have gives me a scheme marker? I'll give it a shot. He takes the spot of a second Austringer or Death Marshall who both do arguably better things, but maybe he can pull his weight.

Had maybe game last night and the Lawyer did really well! Almost too well, I wanted him to die for his marker but he survived despite my best efforts to the contrary. I'm going to definitely keep bringing him in, especially against any nefarious Neverborn crews I see. 

2 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Hahahaha! Argument stolen!

It's not that lawyery, there is clear precedent from Lilith tangling herself. If you don't want people doing it on themselves use "other" in the action/ability.

Definitely. See also Ryle's heal - "target friendly Construct heals blah blah" he can target himself, because he is a friendly Construct. Commanding Presence says friendly model, and Lucius is himself a friendly model. Easy. There's still a risk of Black Jokering yourself, so you still have to be careful. 

Another fun thing to do is Commanding Presence himself to get an Issue Command out if you're just out of range. 4" of free movement for the cost of a 5 is nice.