Ikvar

So in the list I have mentioned: Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap Lilith -- 4 Pool +Beckon Malifaux [1] +Living Blade [2] +Wicked Mistress [1] Barbaros [10] +Rapid Growth [1] Black Blood Shaman [7] Nekima [13] +Obsidian Talons [1] +The True Mother [2] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Maybe I should trade two of the TT for a young to grow him faster, and use the last TT for schemes... and hope for Nekima to make some more TT? Edit: quoted the wrong person >>

Oh wauw that makes the Black Bood shaman more or less a must with Nekima ^^ How do you do all the Grow thing then Joel? - if you should explain it to a noob that have never done it before, as it seems pretty hard to me, almost to a point where it seems gimmicky?

Hey Jesse, your thread is named "help with Lillith", which is exactly what I also needed, and I thought it would be a bit silly to make two threads named exactly the same. But I will be more then happy to make my own if you feel like I have hijacked this one from you I am very interested to know if you actually get the kill when you actively use the black blood ability with BBS and Nekimas zero ability- as I am pretty sure you wont get the kill by the passive ability. So would I both be able to grow a Terror Tot from it aswell as summon one? Btw the whole lure and punch thing with a Terror Tot and lilith seems a bit silly for me- the TT wont do enough dmg to really make a difference or justify their cost just sitting there with her, and making them do the kill for growing them seems very hard to controle when Lilith have started her onslaught

What about a list like this then: Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap Lilith -- 4 Pool +Beckon Malifaux [1] +Living Blade [2] +Wicked Mistress [1] Cherub [3] Barbaros [10] +Nephilim Gladiatus [1] +Rapid Growth [1] Black Blood Shaman [7] Nekima [13] +Obsidian Talons [1] +The True Mother [2] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Or is it to risky to count on Nekima making more Terror Tots with the Black blood shaman?

Hehe, good timing with the edit ^^ And yes your way is still both the safer way, and more consistent with the +flip

Wauw, thanks for doing the math for me Eninja! I am never sad or angry when I am proven wrong, just happy to get a better understanding of the subject, so again thanks for taking your time doing all that ^^ After reading your post there are no doubt your way is the better in a Nephilim list, I dident even think about putting some terror tots there both to punch and to grow after their certain doom And speaking about growing Tots... any chance I can get you guys to comment on my list You forgot that I still use the lure after the charge though, and still make them push into terrrain giving them 1/2/3 dmg and slow, making it a 13min dmg and 21 max dmg and also slow. But if I am doing the grow thing I would definitely choose your option

Hmm, I definitely see your point, and I assume the first 4dmg from Vicked Vines is magic, so it would be awsome vs incorporeal, and as you also mention you dont have to come to them and be at a bigger risk of retaliation. However with the other way you will get a longer reach as you dont get to use the 3inch from your weapon- the model needs to be pushed 1inch towards you for the punch to work. You are also at the mercy of your opponents Cg, and all models in the game dont have the 6Cg like Lilith so your threat range becomes shorter and shorter. When you use the charge with Sudden Darkness you also get +1dmg for two attacks, making your minimum 4dmg which is pretty nice- you dont get the positiv flip though, but it is also less card intensive if you wanted to cheat the dmg with the positiv flip. I definitely see a place for your way- if you dont want to get to close to the enemy, and even better if you are up against a model with incorporeal. But other then that, I think the other way with the charge has a bigger damage potential

I have now had three games with Lilith and a swampfiend crew, I won two and the last was a very close defeat. For those interested I had this list (change the Waldgeist and Silurid according to schemes): Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap Lilith -- 4 Pool +Beckon Malifaux [1] +Living Blade [2] +Wicked Mistress [1] Primordial Magic [2] Bad Juju [8] +Eternal Fiend [2] +Fears Given Form [1] Nekima [13] +Fears Given Form [1] Silurid [7] Waldgeist [6] Waldgeist [6] Nekima and Bad Juju keeping them busy, while Lilith kills runaway models and the rest taking care of schemes. I did not understand Lilith upgrades in the beginning, but last game it just clicked- you activate her (0)Sudden darkness to get +1 dmg, then place a forest with Illusionary Forest 1inch away from the one you want to charge. With her 3range you can now charge a model 9inches away, running through a forest for the +1dmg. But wait theres more!^^ - you still have 1AP, so you now cast Wicked Mistress to push them into the forest (severe terrain), giving them a 1/2/3 dmg flip and the slow condition, and because you have Living blade you can now take a free 1AP ML action. I killed more or less anything I charged this way. This might seem obvious for some of you guys, but I just wanted to share it with the rest of the Neverborn noobs like myself ^^ Anyway my question was actually about a growth list, I have just ordered the nephilim and Lilith box, so I thought it would be fun to actually use some of those models. I have been thinking about this list(as always this is just to get a generel idea, I know list building is not good in this game): Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap Lilith -- 4 Pool +Beckon Malifaux [1] +Living Blade [2] +Wicked Mistress [1] Barbaros [10] +Rapid Growth [1] Nekima [13] +The True Mother [2] Terror Tot [4] Terror Tot [4] Young Nephilim [6] Young Nephilim [6] Any thoughts? good or bad?

Greetings everyone! I have been looking at a list with Spawn Mother, but the more I think about it, the less I understand her. If I understand her abillities correctly, she cant use Lay Eggs and Nesting poll together, so lets say you use the first two turns to lay eggs, then use the third to hatch them with Lay Eggs seeing as you would need an absolute minimum of 2rounds to get some schemes done... thats a lot of time for a 9ss model to just sit back, only to hatch 2 Gupps? - But as always I am sure I have missed the point with the model, so please enlightened me if you can ^^ I have tried to make a list with her, and it would be wonderful if you guys could comment on it, even though I am well aware that list building is a stupid thing in this game- it is just to get a generel idea of what I would do with her: Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap Zoraida -- 4 Pool +Animal Shape [2] +Hex Bag [1] Bad Juju [8] +Eternal Fiend [2] +Fears Given Form [1] Nekima [13] +Fears Given Form [1] Nurse [6] Silurid [7]/Waldergiest [6]? Spawn Mother [9] So I would throw Nekima and Bad Juju in the face of my opponent, keeping them busy while the mother lays some eggs, and Zoraida does her thing with the Voodoo doll and nurse as support- trying to get the Hem and paralyze combo on a strong model. Im not really sure if I should use the last SS on a Waldergeist for tanking, or Silurid for quick scheme markers... or something entirely different maybe?

Hmm, that are some good points - I never understood his ranged attack though- seeing as he needs to charge if he is not engaged with anyone, he can only use it if he have just killed someone, and then use it with his second AP?

But is she a better choice then Killjoy? ^^

I dont know if I want Fear given form on Lilith, or wicked mistress- I just think WM plays really well with Living Blade and Beckon Malifaux, and it furthermore enables me to use Tangle Shadows on Bad Juju, which would be a bit hard with Fear on her. I have also been looking at the Nekima model- it would cost the same as Killjoy, and they actually have a lot of similarities. What are your thought on the Nekima Model?

Thanks as always Joel, you are a lifesaver ^^ But what do you think about the list and the idea itself?

You could also do it with Zoraida instead, trading a bit of the dmg with some more CC and board-controle: Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap Zoraida -- 6 Pool +Animal Shape [2] +Hex Bag [1] +Hexed Among You [1] Bad Juju [8] +Eternal Fiend [2] +Fears Given Form [1] Killjoy [13] Nurse [6] Silurid [7] Silurid [7] Other then the strategy above, you could summon the Voodoo Doll on turn one, and use the last AP to MC Bad Juju a bit up the board.

I just thought about this list: Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap Lilith -- 5 Pool +Beckon Malifaux [1] +Fears Given Form [1] +Living Blade [2] Primordial Magic [2] Bad Juju [8] +Eternal Fiend [2] +Fears Given Form [1] Killjoy [13] Silurid [7] Waldgeist [6] Waldgeist [6] The idea is to begin Killjoy buried, then throw Bad juju in the face on the enemy as fast as possible. When Bad Juju then goes down, Killjoy can have his fun and meanwhile the others do schemes etc... do you guys think this is in any way viable, or am I just showing my lack of knowledge for strategy in this game? ^^

Thanks for the answer Malidave Do you know if the upgrades for The Dreamer also counts for LCB when you summon him?

So I have chosen to have two factions, and three masters in each faction to focus on. I have taken Gremlins and Neverborn for my two factions: Zoraida, Brewmaster and Wong with the Gremlins, and Zoraida, Lilith... and either the Dreamer or Collodi with Neverborn. However as the Neverborn noob that I am, I have absolutely no idea how their generel playstyle is, or even what a crew with them would look like. So if there are any of you wonderful people that would help me get a generel idea about them, so it might be easier to choose, I will in return promiss to write about my endevaurs with them

You need to be within the aura to get the benefit, whereas just being in range when the pulse is cast is all you need- meaning you can move away from the model, but still get the effect of the pulse. Bonus tip: an aura will generally include the model that cast it, but a pulse will only include the models around him and not himself.

When a model have reactivated, you need to treat it like it have never activated that round. So no you do not need to wait until all other models have activated.

Quoted for truth

No matter the situation it is never okay to intentionally cheat or abuse an obvious fault in the rules, no reason to duscuss that part ^^ The only reason why I feel obligated to help people after a match if I end up destroying them, is simply because I am a Henchman and therefore want to make sure people are enjoying themself etc. But if I was just a random player, I actually think I would keep my tactics a lot more to myself. One of the veteran players I play a lot with had a crew with Pandora that completely destroyed everyone he went up against, including me three times in a row. He then said "I will keep playing this list, until someone defeats me", and I have NEVER learned more about the game, tactics and my own faction then being forced to try and counter that list. I ended up winning in the end which of course felt really good, but most of all I was just grateful towards him, as he truly forced me to research the game. I would never think anyone was a jerk simply because they had found an awsome crew, and how to play with them. I just see it as a fun challenge, and I am just happy if I am forced to think differently about the game and how you can play it

Just wanted to quickly say thanks for the first people in the thread for not taking this as some kind of "flame war", and I hope we can continue the mature and constructive tone - oh and if the thread is in the wrong place, the Admins are more then welcome to move it. Looking forward to more opinions from both sides

This is something I am starting to see more and more of, and I cant help but scratch my head in confusion about the whole thing. When I started on this hobby about a year ago, I was playing with someone who talked a lot about how horrible "power-players" and "cheese-lists" were, I did not understand it at that time... but little did I know that I would end up like one of the people he hated, which is actually one of the reasons we do not talk to each other anymore. I have luckily found a group of people now that sees Malifaux as the competitive game it is, and dont mind the way I play. However I am seeing more and more comments on this forum like "I dont see anything wrong with it in the rules, but it is ethically and morally horrible"... but why is it so wrong to do a lot a research to optimize your crew and playstile, and use the rules to your advantage- as long as you dont abuse some obvious bug in the game of course. Now this thread is not to point fingers at anyone, everyone are entitled to their own opinion, I just really want to understand this side of the hobby. I understand that there should be room for a relaxed game aswell, but a relaxed game for me is still where I am trying to optimize my game and ultimately win- I dont mind loosing, but it is just more fun to win ^^

Exactly my point MonkeyBoy, you just explained it a bit better so thanks for that ^^

I will be in Faraos new gaming room for the first time, seeing if it lives up to all the hype ^^ Everyone are as always welcome- I will be the guy with the big Malifaux bag 31/3-2014 18:30 Denmark City: København Shop: Faraos Phone number: 333 222 11