baskinders

Not sure if you're saying you need to be the player that killed the most as worth of models to score the additional +1 or not sorry Dgraz? Most of the strategies are pretty clear at being 2vp OR 4vp for doing something ie individual Slaughter, and a few are quite clear that you need to do the first objective to get the +1vp conditions ie shared claim jump and shared contain power. But shared slaughter is unclear as the +1vp conditions can be completed without actually fulfilling the original condition? Same with shared supply wagon and shared turf war. Our game yesterday we had my opponent had killed 30ss of models to my 24ss, he'd qualified for the +1 for my crew being under half strength and I'd qualified for the +1 for killing his Master and his crew being under half strength. I thought that I should have scored zero for the strategy as I had not fulfilled the original objective so it was 2vp to 0vp. Is that how you guys read it?

Does a player score the + VPs in a Strategy if they do not score the first condition? Specifically, shared slaughter: does the person that killed the least amount of SS still get the +1 for killing the enemy Master/ enemy crew being less than 50%? Book is a bit ambiguous...

Yeah I guess a whole lot of the confusion for me would be fixed by clarifying if "damaging" means "after causing 1 or more damage" (and therefore doesn't trigger if BJ is flipped/ or Dg or Wds reduced to 0) OR it means "after completing the damage process regardless of the amount of damage inflicted"

I agree that this is pretty confusing as there is no consistency. From what I can figure out these are the times a trigger can happen, in order of application: 1. When successfully making a simple duel but before effects are applied (including successfully making a casting flip) 2. When the defender in an opposed duel loses but before effects are applied (including failing to resist a spell) 3. When determining the total amount of damage the attacker is dealing after making a damage flip. 4. When determining the total amount of damage the defender is reducing the incoming attack by. 5. When determining the total amount of wounds the attacker has caused either after converting from damage to wounds or if the attack caused straight wounds. 6. When determining the total amount of wounds the defender is reducing the incoming attack by. 7. When determining if a model has been killed/sacrificed/removed from play. 8. When you have completed the damage resolution process or completed some other effect. So I think that flipping a Black Joker on the damage flip means you don't get to do any triggers from 3 to 6 (and more than likely 7 unless there is an additional effect of the spell that sacs/buries?!?). But you'd still get to do 1, 2 and 8? For example, Rot would trigger at 2, but Flay, Brutal and Critical Strike would trigger at 3 and therefore be cancelled by the BJ. The confusion comes with all of the different wordings as stated in the OP ("when damaging", "after damaging", "suffering damage" etc) Am I on the right track?

Hi, Had this come up in a game yesterday, when do you pay the AR cost for a spell? The rule book is a bit unclear (pg52-53). Is it: 1. When you declare the spell and target as per pg 52 point 1 (and therefore if you fail to be in range or fail to make the casting cost on the flip you still lose the AR) or 2. When you have reached the duel total to successfully cast the spell as per point 2c-2d pg 52-53 (and therefore if your opponent resists you still lose the AR) or 3. When your opponent has failed to resist and you apply the spell effects (and therefore you only lose the AR if the effect actually kick in) Cheers!

Yeah mate, I agree with you, my opinion is you should only be able to companion friendly models. But I can see people arguing that choosing an enemy model as part of a companion chain is not "activating" the enemy model, it's choosing "when" your opponent must activate them. Kinda like Incite or Pacify... I don't agree but think it needs clarification.

Does this mean you can companion with an enemy model and force them to act first if you had the appropriate companion ability?!?

The Hamlin scenario is different and not relevant because you're still in the "targeting" step, you haven't determined a legal target, made a Casting Flip and a Resist Flip and announced triggers and are determining effects like with Reflect Magic, you're simply determining a target. That's why Hamlin can't be chosen as a target in your scenario. But if the insignificant model had targeted a model, completed the relevant flips and declared triggers against a model that could then somehow redirect the effect of the attack onto Hamlin, then Hamlin would get hit.

There's two things here, "targeting" and the "effect". Reflect magic seems to me to ignore "targeting" restrictions because the caster simply becomes the new target, bypassing the need to comply with them. Then you move to the effect and if the model could not be affected then you stop the spell, otherwise continue. So in the case of the Gaki, i'd think it would suffer the effect even if it was on 4wds as the 3wd thing is a targeting restriction?!?

So you're saying option 2 then?

Quick yes or no one . Can Myranda use her spell Animal Instincts to cast a spell that is "Cast only once per activation" for a second time during her own activation? I'm thinking no but had a skerick of doubt given that she's not casting it directly?!? Cheers!

With the Convict Gunslinger's spell Suppressing Fire, it's a Rg:10 with a gun spell (so ranged attack) that targets one model and creates a pulse of 3" from the target. At what point do you resolve the pulse?!? Do you: - successfully cast > target fails to resist > generate pulse and everyone suffers the effect, OR - successfully cast > generate the pulse > each model affected attempts to resist the spell and suffers the effect individually? Cheers!

When Collodi redirects an attack to a Marionette, the talent says the Marionette becomes the new target. Does this mean that the Marionette chosen: 1. Needs to be able to be targeted by the attacker (LOS is not blocked, in range), and/or 2. The new target's position is used for cover modifiers/melee randomizing etc Or is it all still based on Collodi?

...unless it's specifically says if affects friendly models, like Nicodem's Decay.

Yeah so that's what I thought but I've just checked the RM and I think Mach5 is right? It definitely says "A model cannot attack itself unless the attack's description states that it affects friendly models." on pg18. I can't find anywhere where it says you can't attack yourself unless it specifically says you can "target yourself", only that you can target "friendly models". So this means that Lilith can't still cast Transposition on herself, because it doesn't specify that it affects friendly models, but Nicodem could definitely cast Decay on himself, given that it does specify friendly models?!?

G'day all, Juast a quick one, does aDreamer's spell "Trapped in your own nightmare" require the target to have Terrifying in order to work, or can you target anyone and simply ignore the first effect if the target does not have Terrifying? Cheers!

Sorry Ratty, just for clarity, when you say "Attack" above, do you mean "attack"?

Ah, sweet Ratty, cheers mate

Wow, not sure why you think a factual explanation of the rules as they're written is insulting or a personal attack? I was unemotionally replying with statements related to rules? I agree with 011121 in that I thought the WW affinity as written overrides Collodis restriction, but obviously not Levi's?

Sorry mate, it's not because "he says so", it's because that's the rules. As stated earlier in the thread, pg 71 of the rules manual says "Models hired by a Crew must meet all special hiring rule restrictions or they cannot be hired" What 011121 wrote is simply explaining the process of seeing if you meet that rule. You can't have WW with Levi in any game regardless of any other model you have in your crew because you can never "meet" Levi's hiring restriction. Maybe another model will be released at some point that removes Pariah, but currently that's the rules.

I think it's the word "only" in Levi's Pariah that's the trump here. You "can" hire the widow weaver if you have collodi, but if Levi's around, you "can only" have the listed figs, which rules out the weaver.

Sweet mate, first bit makes sense. This bit I'm a bit confused on? The RM gives a specific example of Talent that generates "inbuilt, auto-on" effects. Lifer (Talent) which makes a model immune to Morale Duels (Effect which is generated when the encounter starts, sits on the model with the talent and ends when the encounter ends). So if I'm reading that right, wouldn't Z's Proper Manners (Talent) generate an effect at the start of the encounter which sits on Z and ends at the end of the encounter, that means a negative flip for some enemy attacks? Or is that not right?

So after coming back to this a day later, I've changed my mind and agree with you guys about not being able to have another go at casting a failed (0) spell. The reason is that, unlike (+1) Fast or any of the (+1) Specific Ap for doing something, (+1) Instinctual doesn't actually give you +1 0Ap to spend on another (different) action, it just says you may perform two different (0) Actions during your activation. I think I had in my head that it worked like the other +1 talents and gave you 2 0Ap. So yeah, you couldn't turn around a use you second 0Ap to have another Cast because you don't actually have one, but you can do another (0) Action if you want (ostensibly for free). All makes sense now . Also I agree that RAW you can't actually cast 2 different (0) Spells with Instinctual, which is a little blow for old Marcus and a few others (Molly, Dreamer) but not massive. Cheers!

Hmm, I don't think that's right either, because that woul mean you couldn't cast two different (0) spells if you had them with Instintual?

Sweet mate, but what make's you say that? I just scoured the RM and the term "Perform" isn't ever defined and is used in several places as a word for doing stuff, so it's a little ambiguous here. I guess I'm of the mind that it'd be ok for a model with Instinctive to have a second go at a failed to cast (0) spell, given that pg 53 of the RM says "If a Spell can be cast a limited number of times, this attempt does not count toward that limit" for a failed attempt at casting a spell. A (0) spell has a limit of 1 use, hence this would apply?!?