bashamer

I think this would make a pretty bad 20 pt list; 8ss would be kinda dumb in my oppinion. It also isn't intended as a list, just as a core. Also Effigies are significant (I'm prety sure) so I have 2 insignificant models. So in small point games you have 6 AP for casting and stuff. Lillith can pretty easily murder their smaller models w/ transposition. 1 sorrow cast alluring, the free AP from the effigy gives you your transposition; swap w/ a sorrow and you have 3 AP to try and kill it (and an effective +2CB.) end your activation and your sorrow snaps back. The last AP from the sorrow can place a forest to mitigate ranged attacks. any spare AP can be blown on earthquakes or other stuff. if people bring big melee beatsticks they tend to have crummy DEF, and earthquakes can keep them out of the fight for a while; especially when you are willing to spend soulstones on them. Earthquaking 6 times a turn is an interesting option, but not really something you do every turn unless it is a large game and you are bussing entire armies around. It is also potent turn 5-6 as it means some armies just can't get to objectives. any slower warband will have fits with all the movement from the earthquakes. As for the avatar, it is not the goal. It is a turn 5-6 reinforcement. I don't want to bring her out early as it buys me nearly nothing. I want to bring her out when I need to put 3 forrests into my opponents face.

when Lillith goes avatar you get to place 3 forests w/in 12". That is actually the best ability she has as an avatar in my mind; but you gota read the fine print of the manifestation to know about it. plus then you can cast the spell for more forests.

Neverborn Crew - 20 - Scrap Lilith, Mother of Monsters -- 8 Pool + Lilith, Avatar of Nature's Malevolence [2ss] Sorrow [3ss] Sorrow [3ss] Arcane Effigy [4ss] Brutal Effigy [4ss] So ran it once and it worked suprisingly well; The plan was to go avatar turn 5 or 6 after 6 soulstoned earthquakes. Move people out of position, then spawn 3-4 forests to keep them out of position. So Lillith doesn't normally cast much, but with this setup you can actually cast a lot; earthquaking 6 times just to move your own stuff is totally viable. Tranpositions cast on Sorrows is also fantastic, I grab your dude, swap it with a sorrow. kill your dude that showed up next to lillith (and the other sorrow might have cast Alluring) and probably gets killed. The the transpostioned sorrow snaps back via link. All in all it worked pretty well and I'm planning on using this core more. I dislike my options for the remaining 5/10 points as running stitched is getting old. at 35 points you should have more options. Also after seeing the bunching up effects I think Tuco is a great fit, but then the question is as to what to do with remaining points.

They are really good; they are WTFBBQOMGOP when with Collodi, but that guy isn't cheap. it seems that making them waste AP is key; slow & pushing them away being great examples. a stitched is amazing when they can secure 4-5 gambles in a turn; if it is only 1-2 gambles then they fall a bit short. Either way they tend to be a 1 turn wonder, after which they are removed. There are very few offensive pieces that have a 1 turn of glory during which they end up killing themselves; the only other one is Papa Loco & Pere Ravagé, and they do AOE damage vs the single target damage that the stitched does. (unless you use rotten contents) I can see the frustration but I can also see how I would play against them if I faced them. The Stitched really can't afford to get stuck in melee away from the fight and they can't afford to get slowed. Using cheaper models to tie them up would be a great way to mitigate what they can accomplish.

page 10 under "special forces (dolls)" she has an exemption.

I like to play Collodi with 1 stone. I like to play Lilith with 8; it completely depends on the master / crew / plan

Focus on stratifies and schemes, not on killing $$$$$$$$ / keeping your $$$$$$$$ from getting killed. Also announce framed for murder.

the arcane effigy is f'ing slow. So once you play it you might find that it just can't manage & decide to take something else. Also you can only bring 2, so yeah; you might pass on that one in favor of 2 other ones.

Collodi is amazing if your opponent has to deliver the message. Collodi, 5 effigies, 2 stitched 1 marionette is 25 points. Turn 1 make things fast, use the melee expert & the spare action on the Marionette to do some damage against Collodi. Turn 2 go first, make things fast, kill Collodi Collodi is the best dead master in the faction.

So here is what I guess about tournaments. you beet bad players by maximizing your strategy you beat medium players by countering their strategy you beat good players by countering their strategy and schemes So I'm not a good player and don't know about countering schemes. So if you want an "easy" way to pick masters. Rate the masters you have access to with 0-3 stars for your overall comfort level / model access Rate them 0-3 starts for the different strategies Rate them 0-2 stars for countering strategies Rate them 0-2 stars against factions Add up stars and focus on strategy & comfort when building the crew. counter & opposing faction are rated lower than the others, this is because you don't know how they play the faction. Unless you know an opponent well, or you have seen him play a few games, don't expect him/her to behave the way you expect them to. For example: Lilith can earthquake 6 times in 1 turn; soulstoning every single damn one. This is 12" of movement if they fail all their tests, some factions don't move 12" in a single turn. Is this a list you should expect; nope. But someone might show up thinking this is the $$$$$$$$ and completely blindside you. And it might be good, and it might be trash; but this is why you first focus on the things you can control and then on the things you can't.

the only model that has "doll" as a characteristic is the stitched together, special forces(doll) makes you a doll. Otherwise nearly all of his abilities would only affect stitched together.

missed that

unless one of the 2 is Ophelia. probably the ones that would be the best to obey would be your priority.

Does Not Die is not a lingering effect. Each and every time the Stitched Together is killed, Does Not Die triggers. http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?25899-Stitched-Paralyzed-Killed-Reactivate-Killed-again-Reactivate&highlight=stitched+together yeah, that was bad, Lilith, Mature Nephlim & 2 young Nemplims; 25% chance of 2 damage, .5 damage per attack; 4 targets-> 2 total damage per attack (and ignoring armor / defense). so yeah the doll fest went nuts w/ fast / melee expert etc. Free moderate damage for everyone

why would they only get 1 activation ?

So I'm playing Collodi in a league and people don't feel the stitched is very fair. And they are right, Stitched + Collodi is pretty damn silly. And I have yet to use his spell, trigger & 0 actions. So far I've just used "does not die" "rotten contents" "gamble your life", I think I even did melee attacks (that was dumb). So killing the stitched before it activates really doesn't slot it down. It just activates and then a doll runs up to kill it again for the re-activate. sure I lose a marionette worth of activation but I trade that for a stitched worth. Killing it at range would work (unless I win initiative & remember he has a 0 action) But after that I don't know. What advice could I give my opponents so that they feel like they can do something against the stitched.

I don't know of any 1st turn assassinations in WarmaHordes in MK2, but I have not been keeping up. I guess if you ran your caster turn 1 and gave a good sidestep target for people to goad / bounce off of, maybe. But you better be going first to help your opponent out. I have heard that fantasy magic these days is a bit on the silly side, but I have not played that in a few editions. Either way, the only real slingshot in Warmahordes was Molikarn; and yep it was pretty awesome. Collodi can launch an attack 50" (4x 8" pull, 3x 5" walk, 1" reach, 2" place) inches away; really it is more, as I'm not counting base sizes, so that is likely an other 5". but that is pretty pointless as the table is only 36" long. Most other games don't have combos that stop keeping track because the table just really isn't big enough to care. oh, and you can do it in one activation. Collodi can actually activate 10 models in one activation. Collodi is also the only master I have played a few times, so I have a clue how far i can take it. I'm sure I don't really, but it is nice to think that I do. And that is a henchman.

Thanks for all the info. I'm really tempted by her ability to break combos w/ pasify / incite. As well as her avatar (especially if you are not bringing Candy).

So I play Collody (4 games), and the Kearisa 1 game The movement is insane. The stitched together are insane; so insane that every oponent I've had play against them have been very unpleasantly suprised. 1 game I won by shoveling ~20 attacks into a stitched together & having rotten contents splayed all over the place. This was all in one chain of activations. 5 x gamble your life from 1 model is also insane. And my master is a buffbot. Chained overpowered december's curse on a stitched together was also insane as my army got nuked. Maybe Warmachine in Legends era, but certainly not now.

Planning was in a way focused on people that like to take a few minutes to create their plan for a turn. You can't do that. In Warmahordes I can write a plan for my army; turn 1 do this, turn 2 do this, turn 3 pop feat, do this and this. And I can hand that plan to someone else and they can execute that plan. In Malifaux you can't, every game is very different due to schemes, strategies and crew makeup. You can't just play your game; you have to react to your opponent. This in a way gets also to the strategy / tactics point by Ratty. Strategy is a much smaller part of this game in comparison to other games. As far as surprises, I'm sure it will diminish over time. but the threat ranges are insane, and the combos can be insane. If you don't know them you will lose games due to them. As far as being able to stop people, I'm sure you can slow them down, and if they were really friendly they might even have brought a crew that is easy to slow down. But you need to bring a lot, and your opponent has to be accommodating. But if something that can use soulstones wants to do something to a model that cannot; good luck. And there are a lot of things that can use soulstones offensively, and very few things that can use them defensively. There is a limit; true. It costs resources; true. But it isn't going to be stopped. In this game defense is a much rarer characteristic than offense. playing cagey in this game (removing surprises by padding odds) is really expensive. In a way it is a D13 game, counting on your opponent to have a 14 every time means that you don't take many chances. and you end up not utilizing much of your force. Assuming that your enemy has a red joker is very costly in opportunity cost.

I’ve played 4 games so far and I think I’m starting to see how Malifuax is different than many other games. The big difference is that offense has a massive benefit in Malifaux; if you put your mind to something you WILL be able to pull it off. The Soulstone mechanic ensures that, if a master / totem / henchman goes after a model that cannot use Soulstones they will nearly always be able to pull off the result they want. In addition the ability to cheat a red joker on damage means that it is even more crazy. This means that even tough combos in Malifaux are extremely prevalent and exceptionally powerful you always have to be able to adapt; as any model can die if you opponent is willing to put the resources into it. In Warmahores that is just not the case, there is not nearly the mobility & focus in your offensive output to explode a model that is 12” away. In Games workshop games there are so many dice and random rolls that you can predict how things go after deployment pretty accurately. Even in infinity you can’t stack your odds like in Malifaux. There are two military historians called von Clausewitz & Jomini, where von Clausewitz focuses on opportunity; Jomini focuses on the goal. This game is one where you cannot focus on the goal as most people can fling a monkey wrench and there is nothing you can do about it other than adapt. • If you don’t like surprises, this game is not for you. • If you like to plan things, this game is not for you. • If you get frustrated by setbacks, this game is not for you Some factions are more impacted by this than others, but no faction can place a brick big enough w/o exposing a weakness. If you want to get better at this game, watch games. And I don’t mean watch an entire game, I mean walk to a table and make up your mind as to what you would do right then; then walk over to the next table and repeat. Teach yourself to see opportunity by practicing looking for it.

so models "immune to morale duels" are still "immune to morale duels". Only models that were "immune to morale duels" because they were "immune to willpower duels" lose their immunity. is that correct ?

So I understand how she works when you get everything into position, and I can see how she can move once enemy models are really close. I also really like how incite / pacify can break up a lot of combos. So here are some questions I have; 1. how does she get to the fight, what are reliable ways to move her when enemy models are far away. 2. does the "lose immunity to wp duels" also mean that models become susceptible to morale duels ? 3. would alps create negative synergy by removing actions? 4. can you order your alp / pandora triggers to get more alps ?

ok, thanks.

If I'm engaged with a model that has terrifying, and I lose my immunity to morale duels; do I have to make a duel at that time ?