Nagi21

On 4/18/2020 at 6:41 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think more likely is that supply disruptions were already happening, and then coronavirus shut even more things down.

I mean that explains why the box hasn't released yet, but there being nothing as far as what they're going to do considering they have to plan these things way in advance makes me curious.

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Also worth noting early card draw is pretty powerful.

If you get card draw for the first two turns, you're well set up to gain an advantage that snowballs the game. Losing the card draw engines isn't as big a deal later on.

It's still too much investment for just card draw.  Lelu gets you draw 2 keep one and then just draw one, and that requires 9 stones.  There's no situation i'd want 2 cards over 9 stones.

10 minutes ago, Adran said:

Carver also has a trigger to attack again. Which allows more potential damage than critical strike. 

So each attack has a severe of 4 and each action can get 2 attacks. 4(damage)*2(attacks per action)*3 (actions) is 24. The bonus action can then give a model stunned which carver can give 1 point of damage when they get stunned. Total ( without red joker) 25. 

Interesting.  I wonder which method works out better statistically, giving him masks or rams with Dora...

Couple things to mention:

- His damage doesn't go from 2/3/4 to either of those.  His damage is still 2/3/4 with poison 1 or 2, which doesn't happen until end of turn which means a lot of things can happen to that "damage".  Additionally he doesn't get more than one poison damage at the end of the turn unless you hit two attacks with an extra crow on both.

- Ancient pact is insanely risky due to the lack of df other than it being 6 instead of 5 for the crew, particularly on a model that wants to be up and fighting.  It's possible on Lelu but Lelu is just not worth the cost.

- To the above point, sans upgrade, both of them are worth 7ss... the same as a young nephilim.  Youngs have flight, the same regen, one less defense, and a built in positive on their attacks AND onslaught.  They are better than Lelu in a fight, and more mobile to be able to get into one.  I can see summoning a lelu if you get tots off, but the big issue with the twins is the fact their outclassed in their own weight class.

Am I the only one expecting them to do something weird like writing Nekima out of the fluff and bringing Lilith back with how long this is taking to even get officially announced?

23 hours ago, Adran said:

Edit- with the candy boost, carver is looking at a maximum 25 damage, the Pandora boost is optional, depending on hand/ stones you're prepared to use to get there. 

Please explain your math here as Carver can only get 3 attacks and Crit strike is limited to +2.  Theoretical maximum should be 20 damage assuming you red joker one attack, reshuffle due to deck running out, and then red joker another attack.

On 4/16/2020 at 2:29 AM, Regelridderen said:

Of course this is all general and the game is very specific and match up dependent. So I’d love to hear, when/why you decide to focus on Carver as a melee beater?

So a couple things:

- There's a large difference between 9 minimum damage on hit vs 12 minimum damage on hit, and to add onto that Carver is stat 7 with min 3 built in vs stat 6.  Throw on top of that that carver is a 5/6 vs Teds 4/5.

- As far as having to use Pandora and Candy AP, remember that neither of them have anything that attacks Df, so vs a model that has a high willpower but low defense (re: most large beatsticks), trading off some of that AP to attack a model's weakness.

- Probably the biggest and most important detail... Carver is 50% of our factions ruthless.  Going toe to toe with something like Daw or with large amounts of terrifying, him and the Rider are going to be worth their weight in bodies.

I'm not saying that carver doesn't require setup or that he's the best beater for every situation, but in a situation where I need carver, I generally need him to be removing big problems.

I'd agree with most of this but I think you're underestimating, or misplaying, Carver's role as a main attacker with 4/4/6 damage in a pandora crew.  While it does require investment, Carver can easily remove a model from the game if he's setup with Dora and Candy.

Honestly not really.  They do four things in nightmare.  Move Nightmares, tank shots for Dreamers protected, lucid dreams, and carry Ancient Pact.

The first two things are not really a factor in non-nightmare crews.  Four stones for a 3 inch push machine for the one ore two nightmares you might bring OOK is expensive.

Lucid dreams is also more or less a non-factor because the key thing about lucid dreams is how many times you can make it work, and more importantly, if you can bring high cards back in via stitched.  There are better nightmares to bring OOK for this. 

Carrying Ancient Pact is a thing but at that point your paying 6 stones for a 3hp insignificant upgrade carrier.  Very cost inefficient, and every NVB crew has access to the wicked doll for 1 stone cheaper with more versatility.

In a nutshell, no there's no reason to hire them OOK unless you have Dreamer as a 2nd master, and then having one as an option to keep around for protected is possibly an option.  

Frankly since it's a snake, it should have an ability that lets it change it's size at the start of it's activation, so it can do snake things and get into places it shouldn't XD

54 minutes ago, Ogid said:

About the second part...  I don't have Euripides yet so not sure about the straight combat power of the crew, take in count not every crew can go toe to toe; but Focused is a very powerful buff so that will certainly help in that department.

Speaking from experience, the combat power of the crew is somewhere between moderate and high, the issues being that they are not particularly tanky and they're very large targets.  Focused is very good because they need to be able to do massive damage when they get in, but even the min 3 stuff is fine.  Issues being lack of tank (vigor only goes so far as does HtK when you can see a model from across the board) and lack of mobility.  Shattering shove is nice but requires setup and isn't great as standard.  Prior to the IR change I'dve said that savage could 1v1 most other beater crews pretty well.  Afterwards... they're solidly in alpha strike territory like Nekima's crew, except trading mobility for some moderate ranged control.

4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

With red joker, I believe you MAY (not must) select it.

So there should never be a case of red jokering the damage.

It is may yes, so the worst that could happen is 4 damage... 

That being said moderate damage on a double neg is not an uncommon occurrence, so there's some accounting for the possibility of 3 wds happening to your crew.  You may want to consider doing it to someone who has already gone and gotten shielded from frozen vigor, or something that is going to play far back like a cyclops or gigant.

14 minutes ago, Ogid said:

This isn't a good idea... you will be attacking yourself so you'll be discarding cards from your own control hand. And discard a card to use with Old ways (especially a good card) isn't efficient; it's always better to cheat that card first (in a damage flip or another use of that ability for example) and then use it in the next ability with old ways. In this case just relenting would be better imo.

The BBS idea is worth trying tho, with Intuition you may set up 1 mask for your BBS and this crew has a hand of 7 cards so having access to 1 or 2 masks in the first turn isn't as hard as in other crews and Focused in a crew with good Severe damage is nice. However take in count you will have a 6 Wds mature without Fly with me in turn 2; until turn 3 you won't have a "full" mature and even in that case it'd be at 8 Wds. It's like the Effigy + EoF, it's efficient SS wise at hiring but it won't pull its weight until later. You may speed the BBS grow with Vasilisa, which may also be a nice pick with how minion heavy is this crew (it may make a Cyclops perform his Frozen Runes twice per turn for example), but that's a lot of SS in OOK/Versatile models and you still need the 2 masks the first turn.

I think the bonus of focus bombing wth the BBS makes the lack of a mature until later doable, it just requires a bit of forethought and can't go hammer into every single pool.  Vasi is good with a BBS but in Savage I think she's too expensive and other options are needed.

3 hours ago, green-n-dumb said:

The most fun in Malifaux I had when i was playing Somer in m2e and had dumb luck crew.
Like little bayou gremlins shooting with rams and blasting everything or het tottaly screwed. And bayou 2 cards.
Wong in m2e was pretty fun - that big damage and lots of AoE badabooms.
Zipp was kinda fun with all the crew flying around the table.
Brewmaster general style is kinda fun with all that posion stuff, but he seems not finished for me, crew misses something.
Mei Feng teleports are fun.

You might wanna try Euripides.  Trying to work out the trigonometry of how to coordinate 50mm models around optimally with 30mm markers constantly moving around is somewhat "fun" if complexity is your thing.  Lucius and Nellie are also fairly difficult to get a handle on.  Both lack direct oomph and have to play around a lot of auras and planning ahead.

7 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

@Regelridderen, largely agree!

Wyrd does a pretty good job. I think players are entitled to grumble a bit when they get hit by something a bit 'unreasonable.' But overall, some changes need to happen, and it isn't like Wyrd nerfed half the masters in the game. It was a relatively small number of changes.

Would disagree on that last part.  The NVB changes and FAQ have nerfed over half the faction in some way shape or form.

1 minute ago, Regelridderen said:

Giant models are great for painters, but a bad choice for gamers. 

Just check out 40K, when I started a dreadnaught fit on a 40 mm base, now you have artillery, fighter jets, and titans stomping around on an area the size of a football field - and the game has gone from a tactical game of movement to a game of statistics and buckets of dice. 

I mean to be fair the game was called MathHammer back in 2008 long before the massive models started coming out...

Just now, dzlier said:

Don't forget Grootslang. Model is goddamn enormous.

Yea but at least he stays (mostly) within the base...

40 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Oh, this is cool! 

What I'm wondering is why Cooper, that thing should be trying to chomp them; not obeying him. Did he befriend the beast somehow?

Probably more like tamed/captured it Jurassic World style.

1 hour ago, Clement said:

My question is if it's going to be on a 50mm base or is this something "bigger".   At one point they had been toying with an 80mm "dragon" Shen Long back when they were testing avatars in 2E.   Maybe they'll revisit that base size?

Edit: according to the one shot (thanks @Kyle) it's 30 ft long from nose to tail and 13 feet tall at the hips.   I hope this model is MASSIVE.

Please god no.  The Jorogumo and Lord Chonky Butt are already too big as it is.  You can't have massive models that go way over their bases in a skirmish game where tight chokepoints and terrain are key.

2 hours ago, RisingPhoenix said:

I dunno, I think what the Neverborn are suffering from right now is an awful lot of one-trick ponies.  Actually outside of Dreamer and maybe Marcus, I'd say that all of their masters are some flavor of one-trick pony.  While a few of those are good in any faction, an entire faction of them is weird.  You gotta rock/paper/scissors well.  I think they can still be a good faction, often by preying on metagames, but I think Wyrd should either errata or release some new models to give a faction more than two generalist masters (Titania and Nekima are good choices).  

Eh I dunno about that.  Every crew has a main trick, the issue I think is that a lot of NVB crews don't have good ways to enable said trick.  I mean look at Ironsides.  Her main trick is melee bubble, but she has options to drag you in kicking and screaming.  Nekima is basically... go at them and if they don't let you... scheme?  Dreamer doesn't really have a trick, he's very general aside from his summoning.  Zoraida was also a very good generalist master due to her main mechanic.  Problem is, people complained because they were too good at everything and here we are.  There's just no depth or subtlety, and each crew (Dreamer aside) has glaring weaknesses... and I mean big ones.  Euri is big and squishy, Nekima is squishier, Luci has issues due to obey changes and lacks punch, Titania is painfully slow, Dora has extremely underwhelming minions and her main trick is meh, and Zoraida has been reworked so much I'm terrified about the next DMH removals...

When and what's it gonna do?  Until I get that it's like... k...

On 2/27/2020 at 2:58 PM, RisingPhoenix said:

Plus Neverborn do have a crew of "awesome lady with big sword" (hi Nekima!) and I hear she's not half bad.  Although there's a big problem of "she's missing huge portions of her crew" if you're looking to buy boxes.  

She doesn't have a box, but she has a 3e single model release.  Hayreddin is only available in 2e right now, same with BBS and matures.  She's also on a big downswing due to the changes in GG1, specifically her own defenses and her aura.

4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I personally dislike most power level errata (though some stuff is just ridiculous and the nerf to Stitched was the most well executed nerf IMO).

Except for the completely incoherent grammar and no guidance on how it works with Terrifying...

15 hours ago, Ogid said:

Players with other circunstances/priorities/a bigger collection could decide to switch faction/main master for a while; and that's totally fine. You don't have to suffer, play whatever you have fun with

The problem with that line of thinking is that, while legitamate, it forgets that this is a miniature-based game, and that many players are stuck with what they originally bought faction wise.  While cheaper than most games, its not cheap to go full faction swapping from scratch, let alone with Wyrd's distribution issues.  This is how you bleed players from a game.

4 hours ago, Ogid said:

It sucks right now but I guess we will get some defensive tech or buffs where needed eventually.

Prior experience would not agree with that guess... and eventually is at least a year out minimum.  Why would I want to suffer a half-playable faction that long?

1 hour ago, LexLock said:

So why did they nerf Enraged By Insolence? Has anyone ever had it affect their games to any meaningful degree?

That aura is pretty much the only thing Nekima can do that isn't hitting it very hard on her turn. I mean, it's still based around hitting, but it at least makes your opponent think.

As it is now Enraged By Insolence needs too many things to go right to be effective. You need a minimum of four different models in the right spots to get a pretty mediocre effect. Nekima needs to activate the aura, one of your models needs to be killed (oof) by an enemy model within pushing range of another one of your models. All you get is one attack for all this setup, it isn't worth it and it is too easy to counter.

Nekima really needs something to do that isn't just hitting things with a big stick.

Unfortunately that's what the designers have decided to shoehorn her as.  Nothing but a (moderately) big stick that has little to no synergy with the rest of her crew.  At least Lilith had some interesting mechanics that bridged the gap between supporting the crew and running around doing her own thing.

To the first point I did actually have it do something fun (and hilarious).  I charged my own model with her, to kill it, causing black blood that killed one model, then took the enraged move and attack to kill another model.  Traded a young for the First Mate and a Stitched, was awesome.

It's really a shame the designers just seem to have this desire to make nephilim (maybe NVB) as unfun to play as possible.  Which is a shame because the keyword in 3e seems to have some good stuff... but it's telling when you're trying desperately to figure out a way to have someone other than the master lead a nephilim crew (I mean hell Kharnage just bailed on NVB because of the design choices).