ZiggyQubert

Well thats an easy one to explain, its FM (Freakin Magic).

A couple of updates and correction - if things work out for you you can actualy get 3 sets of activations from each rat (I've had turns where you get 4 or 5 activations from a single rat) Hamelin himself also gives blight counters, I believe Nix ans rat catchers also can give blight counters I mostly take the obident wretch to be the first model I sac (same cost as a rat and mor usefull for the first turn or 2) indeed rats by themselves are kinda crappy, not necessarily bad but not awsome, get 4 or 5 of them together and they start being nasty, always having a positive flip for there attack, and doing at least 2 damage if they hit (1dg+wound from blight counter) then kill the rats with a rat catcher and have them all attack again Bleeding disease is awsome, usualy I will have a rat catcher cast it to finish off a model that rats have been attacking (it's not a spell so you can cast it into combat) It allows you to pull a nasty combat model out of the game, first make it insignificant, then cast this on them, and presto a model that can't attack or cast targeted spells on anyone (if within 12" of hamelin) ya, basicly hamelin plays the "your models cant do anything" game and does it well (by making them insignificant and having a crew that is hard to keep dead)

I don't think it's specified but one should play "shortest safest route ish", in that yes it's prouably perfectly legal to cover the entire board when pushing into base contact, but one should prouably use womething close to the shortest safe route, and end the push touching any point of the base that you want.

If we were playing yes we would figure something out, and I would happily play it either way, but in an attempt to figure out what the rule actualy means (and for debate) its worth talking about it. And I'd agree that tiny should be re-written as either - Tiny - Ranged Strikes and Spells with a Rg targeting this model recieve - to there attack and casting flips. or Tiny - Ranged Strikes and Ranged Attack Spells targeting this model recieve - to there attack and casting flips. I think either would be more cleer

So I being an experienced player myself (and having provided page numbers for rules) should take another experienced players opinion even when I think they could be wrong? Aparently a spell can also be a "ranged spell" (in fact tiny references this type of spell) I agree it is both "ranged spell" and an "attack spell", attack spell, however that dosent prevent other spells from being ranged spells (in the smae manner that it dosent prevent other spells from being attack spells). As a "ranged spell" is not defined anwyhere, the question is what is a ranged spell? the answer - "any spell with a range" is just as valad as any of the other answere. Think f it this way, if someone asked you (without regard to this rule) what a ranged spell is, you could easily say "well a spell with a range is a ranged spell", makes perfect sence and is completly logical.

by the same argument if they had ment ranged attack spells then they would have said so, they diden't so its ambuigus or "Tiny" is there because the model is so small it's hard to see and thus anything you target at a tiny model is harder to do (simply because sometimes you can't see see it). Except for the fact that the rules state - "Modifiers that affect melee or ranged attacks affect these Spells as well." so yes tecnicly a spell with the icon is not a ranged strike, however anything that effects a ranged strike will effect a spell with the icon

So this is the problem with "Rules as Intended", which wyrd seams to support (I dont have a problem with this by the way), is that my interpertation of what they ment can be different from what other people ment, and we need to wait for them to weigh in on what they really ment. as stated above, this is another issue, is the problem with the wording of tiny or how spells are described. Actualy I think the whole reference to spells at all would be redundent, afterall spells with the icon would still be effected if the phrase "ranged spells" was removed from the description (hence my thought that "ranged spells" refers to something other thatn spells with the icon) I would agree that the intent is that spells with the icon should not be effected, spells with the icon should be effected, spells without these icons, im not sure of, my personal feeling is that as the phrase used is "ranged spells" that all spells that target and have a range should be affected, as the best definition I can come up with for "ranged spells" is a spell with a range. And yes I would also agree that this makes tiny verry effective (again not sure if that was the intent or not), but then again tiny also has some severe limitations as well (cant engage, models can walk over them etc...) so that might be a fair tradeoff.

Thats exactly my point the explisitly makes the spell a "ranged attack spell" and all I hear is people saying "No a renged spell is only a spell that has the icon" with no justification other than saying it makes the spell a "ranged attack spell" (as I've pointede out not the same thing as a ranged spell, because look its different wording). I'm happy to abide by a martals ruling, but as far as I can tell from the manual there is no clear definiton of a "ranged spell" other than using the interpertation of a spell with a range (and yes I realize that this makes tiny more powerfull)

As I've said before yes anything with the icon is definatly a renged spell, however the icon makes the spell a "ranged attack spell" not a "ranged spell" (as is stated in the rules) what then is a "ranged spell"? = "ranged attack spell" as a "ranged spell" is not explisitly defined (yes a "ranged attack spell" is defined) what eactly is a "ranged spell" it could be either - any spell with a range (i.e. Rg stat) - spell with a icon The rules are unclesr, both the wording of tiny (it states both attacks and "ranged spells" note- a spell with is already a ranged strike and would be effected if "ranged spell" was omitted from the description) and the rules for a spell with :range state it makes the spell a "ranged attack spell" implying that it is a spicific type of "ranged spell" and yes this could be rules laywering / nit poicking, however it's also a valid question, and people are answering the question - Q: What is a "ranged spell"? A: a "ranged attack spell" is a "ranged spell" and nothing else is Well I hate to say it but "ranged attack spell" does not equal "ranged spell", I would agree that all "ranged attack spells" are "ranged spell" but not all "ranged spells" are "ranged attck spells"

So you dont have experience with hamelin so you cant form an opinion of how his combat and ranged abilities are but you can form an opinion of how powerfull bully is (without any experience) So you have an opinion (and have no experience with the rules in question) and magicpockets has another opinion (and lots of experience with the rules in question) and yet you think that your opinion is the more relevent of the two. I have to say go get some experience with/against hamelin then you will be in an position to have an informed opinion.

Although funny enoug, Magicpockets hasent been saying that, hes been all for changing the bully mechanic. All he said was you have no experience with this so stop acting like you have the ultamate answer, and admit that you are just theory fauxing and give some credit to thoes people that have experience with it.

Well it only works aginst renged spells that target (so pulses and auras dont count), also there its entierly possible that in the future there could be a spell with no range (wyrd has done things like this before) Well in the same veign if they ment only spells with the icon, then they could have left out the "ranged spells" wording (as spells with the icon count as ranged attacks) as for overthinking, my initial reaction to the rule was ranged spells? whats that? it must be spells with range.

Sh why do you believe this? The rules manual clearly states that the icon makes the spell a "ranged attack spell" I have to believe that a ranged spell is something different than a ranged attack spell, becauss - A - the working is different B - the wording "ranged Strikes and ranged Spells targeting this model" would be redundent if the two phrases mean th same thing (as spells with the icon count as ranged attacks and are modified in the same manner) C - Why would they use a phrase that is short for something else? Certainly not to save space on the card

That was my take on it (yes I coppied the wording from the card exactly)

As I said the gun icon makes the spell a "ranged attack Spell" (rules manual pg 51) Im asuming that is something different than a ranged spell so is there a differance between a ranged spell and a ranged attack spell?

Hey, this came up the other day and I have been unable to find anything on it - What exactly is a ranged spell, the Young Lacroix have the Talent Tiny - ranged Strikes and ranged Spells targeting thsi model recieve - to ther attack and casting flips. Now my question is what exactly is a ranged spell, I know the gun icon makes a spell a ranged strike (thus covered by the ranged strikes wording) my asumption is that any spell that has a range (the Rg Stat) is concidered a ranged spell, and thus would be at a - when targeting them

Only true for spells actualy.

I believe as obeay happens outside of the models activation it is not restricted by that limitation, the logic is something like - it prevents you from casting it if you have already cast it during the current activation - it doesent prevent you from casting it outside of your activation

except there are times (for instance restisting a spell) that don't fall under that broad category.. The current wording also allows for future abilities to state something like "Target model must win a 12->wp duel or..."

I believe the interaction works something like this - each model has his own copy of a spell when a model casts that spell that copy may only be cast once per turn (i.e. rules on a model dont effect other models unless they state they do) Another thing to look at is the once per turn per crew spells which can only be cast once per turn regardless of the model that wants to cast it. As for magical extension, I believe that the totem is actualy casting the "magical extension spell", once cast you then cast one of the masters spells as if it was your own (the master is not casting it) Other things of note - the actual rule for obey is "This spell may be cast once per activation" so if Zorida recived reactivate she could cast it again, a totem casting it would be using a seperate activation, etc.. so the wording even allows for multiple casting by the same model in the same turn - its actualy possible to cast obey 4 times a turn using zorida, her totem, and the doppelganger if you really wnat to spam it.

um it would be an unmodifiable damage flip, so just the flip would be unmodifiable, and anything else could be modified (the damage could be modified by armor etc)

Actualy, I'll take credit for it here -- http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24040 but one interpration would be that you can use it, as the ability does one wound to the rat, (not killing it) it is only when it takes that wound that the rat takes an aditional wound from the blight token. But this would make the rats mad crazy good as well, as they could recycle indefinetly as long as they continue to hit there target, not that difficult with there (0) action

I'm asuming that if something else would prevent them from making the strike (the dreamer with a nightmare nearby or a ht 1 spirit next to Hamelin for example) that they would not perform the strike

I believe the rules manual states if you have more than one model effected by something the models controler choses what order his models are effected (I coud be wrong though)