E.T.A. Hoffman

Thanks! Glad it was informative.

8/29/2012 - Played a game yesterday. I got some things to add, so I'll ad Let's get down to it. First I'd like to just say I love the Lynch fluff. It's funny because his crew is more the master than he is. Nothing more than a loud mouth with a good luck streak. I decided that, because I love this crew, I would post up a review of the models and my overall opinion of them. This is simply my opinion and a place to start a Lynch thread. So enjoy in good health, feel free to skip to the end if it’s too long to read. Mr. Lynch: Lynch is not a typical neverborn master. We are used to masters that bring some level of shenanigans to the field, I.E. the Dreamer/Chompy sling shot, Pandora willpower grape, Lilith Transposition, ect. Lynch, IMO (sorry I wanna’ stress this point), doesn't have this. Not to say that is his crew is without it gimmicks, but it doesn't have that horrible power move that I feel is customary for NB. But, that isn't a bad thing. It's really about time that NB got a master who was just...good. A master that players didn't throw cock-eyed glanced at when you set him down on the table. Though I see ways of making them do so. Mr. Lynch Continued: Jacob is a support character to his crew. His pistol is respectable with a nice, random, trigger, but at 8" you'll find it situation. He is also very soft, with 8 wounds and only 1 defense trigger (it's an auto trigger that pushes him 4" back when in melee) he still is not made for prolonged combat. Plus he only has a stash of 2 stones, 4 if you don't take his totem. By and large, Jacob's role is to maintain your deck. He has three very nice abilities. One, he makes the 1 of mask a red joker, so he has two in his deck, but it only works for him, not his minions. Two, he can once a game trash his hand after the draw phase and then redraw. Last is his best, Dead Man's Hands. This spell allows Jacob to draw three cards but for each card, if the value is odd your opponent drops a card, and even he draws. This is a double edged sword, and in some of my games was a boon to my opponent. But, at least for Jacob it's always 6 cards, unless it's a 1 or 8 value card then you would not keep it. I found that taking the Arcane Effigy allows him an additional card each turn and a third attempt at Dead Man's Hands. So a possible 16 cards in your hand a turn if all goes very well. Of course, if you really want to abuse the power. You could take the doppelganger and copy his spell and then you could do it four times, for a possible 19 cards. But, it’s so many stones worth of models to do it, and you’ll get to the point that it really won’t matter. Pip the ace! An awesome trigger. I had three pistol shots and I needed to kill Lady J, who was under the protection of a Warden. I had two Red Jokers in my hand. Arguably, I could make this work. So I shoot once, hit LJ and do damage, she is going to ignore it though. I'm at a negative flip, but, I triggered pip the ace. I discard a card and bam! I got a straight flip. I drop the RJ for damage. Didn't kill the warden in one hit but it could have happened. Anyway, it's a great trigger that needs mentioning. Also should not, that his Roulette trigger is very frustrating when your opponent has no cards left. The Hungering Darkness: Arguably, this is the real master of the crew. If not that, then he is definitely the work horse. He comes free with Lynch, but you can opt not to deploy him and receive 2 extra stones in Lynch’s pool. I wouldn’t not recommend that unless you want to attempt one of Mr. Jacob’s schemes which requires HD not to be deployed, but I’ll get to that later. The Darkness is spirit with 7 wounds. Luckily he has a trick. If a model with brilliance dies, you can discard two cards of the same value and place the Darkness in B2B with that dead model. I'll repeat that, Placed, not summoned. The Darkness gets half as many wounds as the value on the cards you discarded. HD has a duel role in this game. He’s a melee beat stick. With a pair, magical, attack of 2/4/6 and a 3” reach. No extra AP for attacking but he does get a bonus damage flip to models with brilliance. He also gives brilliance with each attack. Let’s discuss his triggers for a moment. There are three, one requires the target model to make a CB-13 duel or suffer the same damage you dealt again. Which is nice, but it only really works if your opponent has few to no cards left. The next allows the Darkness to make a healing flip when he kills a model. Last, and best, he can make the target model brilliant for the rest of the game. Which brings us to his primary role. The Darkness has a 10” spell that gives out brilliance; both the spell and attack use this trigger. With his casting expert, and impressive CA of 7, I have found the best way to use him is to sit back on and give out brilliance for the first few turns. You’ll find a lot of things get easier once that job is done. What I have tended to do is simultaneously activate the pair and first use Lynch to rob you of your cards, which is a 10” spell, and then have the Darkness give out brilliance. I should mention that the darkness has use soulstone ability. You could also use the Arcane Effigy to give the Darkness an extra spell, since the Darkness counts as a master though he is worth 0 VP ever. I didn't get to try this, but it was discovered. Have the Beckoner gives HD brilliance. The Darkness uses serve me on himself, which he can do. He then gets reactivate after his turn. Plus, if he dies, and you manage to bring him back again, using his ream ability. Then you could get 3 activations out of him. Mr. Graves: Is your tank for all intent and purposes. He’s not the toughest customer ever, but for 7 stones, he’s more than worth it. He has black blood and armor +1 and 9 wounds. His damage is respectable but he’s more than just a club swinger. He has a few abilities designed to move models around. One allows him to push a model 5” then walk up to them and if you get the trigger, take swing with your club. This is a 1 action, so you can do it again and possibly shove a model 10” which is pretty big. He can also pick a point on the table and force all models off it within 6”. I found that his beat stick powers often get muddled with his shuffling abilities. I have not had too much success with him yet, but I speculate that the trick lies within making sure you use the right abilities at the right time. I also believe that combined withed Tannen, Mr. Grave can be very scary. Don't look at Graves as just a beat stick. This man has a lot of utility that I didn't realize till now. Before that though, I need to make a amendment, show yah the door only works on enemy models. Ok, so what I learned with Graves is, if you take Illuminated and Becks, he can use his bar's closed ability to get 4" of free move each turn. The crew is faster then they appear. Lynch has a spell that gives +1 movement. So you can double walk for 12" then use bar's closed, or whatever order you like. So 16" a movement. Mr. Tannen: Is not tough nor does he output a lot of damage. But what he does do is make it hard for your opponent to cheat fate. He has a passive 6” aura -I mean passive as in it is always active-. Enemy models in this aura must discard a card before they can cheat fate. He can also cast a spell that does not allow a model to cheat fate higher than me. He plays very much the way a cooler should. I try and put him right behind Mr. Graves and just follow the big guy around. When Graves gets into combat, Tannen gives him a huge edge. Honestly, I like this model. But, his 6ss could be spent else where. He's great, if you can get a fight in one big cluster. Otherwise, he'll be of little use for the first half of the game. He's good if you got the extra stones, but I need more playtime to be convinced. Beckoner/Jezebel/Honeypot: Whatever you call her, she is a great utility model. She can lure, not as effectively as some models, but she can also get a free walk action out of it at the same time. Her ranged attack is not high in damage but it ignores cover and grants brilliance. She has two other abilities that are very useful. One she can keep the party going, it’s a passive ability, 6” aura, models in it do not lose brilliance at the end of the turn. They can also rob people of their AP with one of her spells. For 5 SS she is a great combo with Illuminated. She lures the enemy in while he takes a whack. She has irresistible and if the model attacking her is brilliance then they receive double negative twist to the attack. I see myself running Lynch as a 10T and using Oiran with Beckoners. Illuminated: Are the potatoes of this crew I think. They are overall generalists. They have armor 1, regen 1 an impressive 2/3/5 damage arc, and a spell that gives them various enhancements. Their 8” gun can bestow brilliance, but I think it’s the melee attack with a flay trigger that makes them good. When I use them, I use the Beckoners to lure and these guys to attack. Once nifty trigger allows their range weapon to place a blast marker that gives out brilliance. Depleted: One of my favorite models. These guys are what inevitably happens to people on the ‘Stuff’. They are dried out husks. They are cheap but insignificant but if they can see the Darkness then they become significant. I prefer not to run them if the Darkness is not going to start the game on the table. They have hard to kill and severe damage against them turns into moderate, that plus armor 1 makes them very sturdy. They can give out burning tokens with their decent melee attacks and can push towards other models with brilliance, gives them a bit of speed. I have not found any really impressive synergies with them yet, they are simply an overall good model for the cost. Probably best for sitting on objectives. Schemes: Jacob has two Master specific schemes, which I believe makes him the first of his kind. One is called, “Read ‘em and …” and it’s probably one of my favorites. You need to end a round with a straight of 5 cards in your hand. It’s very thematic and more than a little challenging, because you cannot take the Hungering Darkness during deployment. I tried this once with the Arcane effigy and was very lucky to actually draw the cards I need in the first two turns without having to cast dead man’s hands. Which was pure luck, but you can see how it was supposed to happen. His other scheme is spread the light. This one is probably easier, because you get the HD to start. You have to end the game with no enemy models without brilliance and at least 2 models left alive. Synopses: The thing I’ve come to understand about Lynch is that he doesn’t come at you sideways. This crew is comprised of models that individually are very good. There is really no weak links among them. But, they also don’t have any tricks to make them faster. They still have to walk, one at a time, up to the enemy to punch them in the face. They don’t have a lot of long ranged attacks either. This is what makes them so different from most Neverborn. Compared to Collodi or Chompy, his crew is practically sluggish, though they are not as slow as other crews. They don’t have any safe way to get at the enemy like Lilith does with Transpositions or Pandora’s ability to bounce around and interrupt your activations. You also don’t get any guaranteed damage. Like Hoffman and his open circuitry spell. You have to approach Jacob thematically, like a poker player. You need to know when to fold them and know when to hold them. The essence of this crew is manipulation fate. We have models that can prevent our opponents from cheating and possibly even rob them of all their cards. I find this a lot of fun but also challenging. This crew seems to like being near each other. I look forward to running Stitched Togethers and Oirans to add some extra card stealing tricks. As I continue experimenting I’ll post up my findings here. If you got any questions or comments please throw them up here.

This classic debate again. lol Well here's my take. She is awesome. She hits like a mac-truck and is pretty fast. If you bring her alone for that purpose. If you wanna do a grow list, then she is will definitely be a huge asset. That being said, she is a bit over priced. I think she's probably 2 stones more than she is worth. Her triggers are not very exciting. Still I always enjoy bringing her and she is always useful. So, you're not in any danger of wasting stones. I would not take her in a game under 30 SS, though. If you want her cause you think she is cool or want a grow list, then go nuts! If you want to be super competitive, for 1 extra stone you can take the Lelu/Lilitu pair which are probably more devastating.

Hi all, I tried this list out for the first time at a tournament and took 2nd, so I'm pretty pleased with that I think this list has many limitations, but overall, I think it can do some really potent damage! So without any further guildling (PUN!!!!) the lily: Hoffman 5 SS Cache [kash] Lucius Ryle Warden Warden Watcher Watcher What I found when I ran this was the sheer disgusting number of shots from Ryle. I was hesitant to build this list before, because if Ryle died, then Lucy was useless. Now with the release of the Wardens, I have options! A possible 9 shots from Ryle a turn. And not just that, but, the ability to have him double walk out, with Hoffman in toe, dump his Ranged Expert shot, then Hoffman makes him shoot 2 - 3 times. When Lucy comes around, he walks Ryle and Hoffman back. That means that on turn one, in theory, you could shoot four times at a max range of 20" (Double walk 8" but 12" gun) and if you were reckless enough, you could push him an additional 4" with his social repressed, but you'd leave Hoffman by himself. But, it's got limitations. Namely, you are relaying on one model to do the work, and two other models to make him. The wardens are great, but this list is Ryle-centric, if he dies, then it really loses a lot. Plus terrain is killer. I lost the first round of the tourney because I simply could not get my opponent to step out of cover. And sadly, I took a Guardian instead of the watchers that round, big mistake. I had planned on using Hoffman and the Guardian to give Ryle armor 6! Which would have worked out better in a different game. The last game I played was a great example of this lists potency. I used the Watchers to fly out and plant the evidence and the rest of the crew stood back and made a firing line. Turn one (or two, not sure) Ryle killed 14 SS of models on his own. The game still came down to the initiative flip later on, but that's also not the point. There is a great deal of synergy between Lucius and Hoffman now, more so than any other master and Lucy. Just thought I'd share. Also, liked to thank the TO and the players for the top notch Sportsmanship and skill.

Don't neglect the widow weaver! I've played games where she managed to make 3 teddies on her own! Remember though, teddies she makes don't count as nightmares.

Hello All, So I finally ran this combo and got it to work. Now, I did it in a slaughter game, which is plain dumb, but that's not important right now. Without ado, here's the list. Hoffman Mechanical Attendant Rusty Alice Ryle Watcher 25SS Super situational I know, because you need to have the right cards but follow me on this one. Turn One: Hoffman and MA all action to gain scrap (they are scavangers after all) Turn One: Rusty uses Hoffman's fancy casting bonuses to gain plus four to her casting, from having four constructs near here. That means she has a casting of 9 and only needs a 5 of tombs to get the spell off. In most cases, this should be doable. Not 100% but if my completely arbitrary math is right, then its like 80% chance. Or something... Not always, but with some margin of success. You should be able to make two little abominations in turn one. Turn two: Do it all again. The last time I tried this it worked pretty well. I did not do it exactly that way, but this is what I consider optimized. I think this could lead to some major SS boon to Hoffman in larger games. 35-40 or more, cause alice is so costly at 10ss. But, really only in games where you dont have to move that much. Anyone else try this combo?

Ok I thought as much. Its just that it was on the V2 as well. she also gain the casting abilities of the master too. So I think that like with Hoffman, she'd gain a +1 for all constructs in 4". So she may not have tombs but I can lower the casting at least. Ok, thanks

Hi all, I"m confused about this specific spell. On he V2 Card, the Tombs is grey'd out, but she doesn't have tombs in her casting. Does that mean that she does or does not need the tombs to cast willfull animation? I might be newbing out here and getting my grey/black suits mixed up.

if that's the case then the only way to nab reactivate would be from Joss. It's printed on his card, he just needs to have access to it. If you pump him up, then he gains it, you can use hoffman to steal it from him I think. That'd be sweet.

Hi all, I'm a little confused on this works. Do spells take cover modifiers? Or do only ranged spells take cover modifiers? Thanks!

Not so sure about that. I need to look some stuff up. If its true then that kind of stinks. ---------- Post added at 02:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 PM ---------- if that's the case then the only way to nab reactivate would be from Joss. It's printed on his card, he just needs to have access to it. If you pump him up, then he gains it, you can use hoffman to steal it from him I think. That'd be sweet.

I don't think its that wasteful really. Think about it. Hoffman nabs the gun. Gains the abilities of the gun. So say the Rider activated this turn with 0 deaths. He'd get +flip to damages right. Well thats given to his gun, Final Moments. So when Hoffman Take the gun, he'd get the heal 2 wounds ability and the +Dam. AND! The big thing, is that he can now SS the ranged attacks. A sad fact I recently learned, Hoffman cannot SS Machine Puppet attacks because its not him making the attack.

I stand corrected

Really? That seems really lame since that's one of Hoffman's main offensive abilities, and since other Master who can Obey people can use SS on their attacks.

Then wouldn't that mean Hoffman cannot soul stone machine puppet attacks?

Hi, Does Hoffman gain the benefits of the Pale Riders riffle when he uses it in a machine puppet attacks? The gun has a special ability, not a trigger, that it heals the user 2 wounds when it kills a model. Since Hoffman is firing the gun, and this is not a trigger, I assume that Hoffman gets healed the two wounds. Is this correct? Thanks!

I ran them together for the first time and I gotta say I was not disapointed. I started them in b2b and used run and gun to get a shot off while moving Hoffman all over the board. I used override edict to get additional uses out of him too. And something I've noticed that others might not have, when you used machine puppet using final moments, the affects of that weapon still apply. You can't use triggers but any abilities of that gun take place. So if Hoffman uses machine puppet final moments, then he heals those 2 wounds, since he is firing the weapon...techinally. In one round I actived the Pale Rider, shot a doggy to death. Then activated Hoffman, exposed circuitry, killed three more dogs, then reactivated the Pale Rider who now had 4 kills in his death cycle. For 9 SS, the Pale Rider brings a lot of hurt!

Sign me up! Joe

So then the Carrion Effigy would not make undead or construct run away, correct?

Hi all, So I'm confused a bit on how this works. There are effects in this game, like the ones I mentioned in the title, that remove immunities to moral duels. Such as anethma for example. This ability removes any immunities to moral duels. Now that much makes sense. But this is what does not. Say Avatar of Imagination comes out and is staring down a Peace Keeper. The Peacekeeper is a construct, so is immune to moral duels and influence. Anethma by passes both of these and makes the model run in terror... or does it? The rule of moral duels is specific to living models. So, even if Anethma removes immunties to Moral Duels, the constructs and undead would still not be affected by it. Cause they are, by definition, not subject to that rule. The rule itself only pertains to living models. Do I have this correct? Are undead and constructs designed to never take moral duels in anyway? Reguardless of source? Except for Pandora of course. Thanks!

Hi all, I'm eager to get my Pale Rider going with Hoffman. Has anyone tried this? Stealing his death count ability could be a nice boost to steal. Has anyone tried this? What were your results? Cheers

Well that's a relief. Now I can give up the search. I felt like a dog chasing his own tail. I was never going to get it, but damned if I was going to give up trying Thanks

Can I ask a question? Even though Hoffman can hire outside faction models, he still has to pay the outside faction cost right? I'm not sure how this rule works.

But, that I dont understand. Machine puppet doesnt give you a rams in addition to your weapon. IT says in the desc of machine puppet that you make a strike with a basic weapon not using its own CB but the 6Rams that the ability gives you. So you do not get the double rams for CS. So that returns me to wondering why the feff so many Guild models have rams but no triggers. Mechanical Attendant Guardian Hunter - His claws have it but no trigger or abilities with it There is either a way to use the rams using another model. Or they truely have no purpose. And it's drive me crazy that I cannot figure it out lol

hi all so i just bought hoffman and i totally dig the crew. but i notice that the guardian and some others have a ram built-in to their combat but they have no triggers or anything to use these abilities. does anyone know if there is a reason for this, or is there a combo that uses it that I have not noticed? thanks