Turbodog

Deep breath. Hoffman with Peacekeeper, Guardian (possibly Watcher) is a simple solution to your problem. Here's what you do. First, let's consider point investment. If you're facing a Mature Nephilim and Nekima as Hoffman, then he bought them or he bought tots/young to grow. Note, if he plans on growing, he needs to kill his own models to do it. Hoffman's constructs don't yield blood counters. So let's put up his 23 point investment of a mature and nekima vs. your 16 point investment of peacekeeper + guardian. First, realize you win engagement if he is baited to charge you. His models can fly, and you have arachnid/guardian pushes. So both are pretty moble. But if you stay more than 9" away from him and let him charge the following happens. He selects one of his models (no way to companion) charges you at up to 12 or 13 inches for one attack, then melee masters for one attack. Then it's your activation. If you have a peacekeeper activation, you can flurry that model. If you have a Hoffman activation, you can immediate reactivate the peacekeeper or just machine puppet the peacekeeper. Bottom line, as you likely know, you can't lose Hoffman or the Peacekeeper in those first two charge attacks. Now, you're going to get hit by the attacks. Cheating to force a - flip is not a bad idea, but don't lose all your good cards doing it. The key is that you took turn 1 to set up the protect chain. Guardian casts protect on Hoffman. Hoffman (0) Assimilates Protect and casts Protect on Peacekeeper. Preferrably, Guardian then is using (0) Stalwart to grant +2 armor to the group. If you KNOW the charge is coming, Guardian could possibly (all) Shield Wall the group. From the Nephilim side, they need to pick who to charge, and all are bad ideas. If they charge the Peacekeeper, here's what happens. (So long as no red joker...more on that later). Nephilim hits Peacekeeper doing severe damage (i'm doing a worst case here) of 6. Peacekeeper armor reduces it to 2 (remember he has +2 from stalwart going). Hoffman's protect takes the 2 wounds from the Peacekeeper. Guardian's protect takes the 2 wounds from Hoffman. Guardian takes 1 wound from Stalwart ability. Melee master attack occurs with same result. After charge result: Peacekeeper unharmed. Hoffman unharmed. Guardian has suffered 6 wounds and has 3 remaining. You've lost no models and he has a Nephilim in your melee range. You kill it as mentioned above. (Because with Cb 6 vs. Df 4 and him having used his good high cards to hit you/for damage you most times will). Now it's Nekima. What does she do? She could charge the Guardian to try to finish it off. Hopefully you've saved a low tome to get his auto-shield wall trigger if she does. (perfect scenario) because they he does have +4 armor vs. her attacks and she'll need both to hit for severe to kill it. (notice how he has now hit you for 4 severe damages in a row...think how unlikely that is...and all you lost was your Guardian) If this happens, it's time for Hoffman/Peacekeeper to proceed to kill Nekima in like fashion. Most players will not see this as a good model trade (you lost guardian, they lost a mature and nekima). What if Nekima goes after...anyone else? Well, essentially, the guardian still takes 2 wounds (due to stalwart) and is alive. Hoffman either keeps, or uses protect to take the damage from the hits on himself and he may use a soulstone to reduce those wounds as he takes them. He shouldn't have more than 4 or 5 wounds from this, leaving him with at least half his health. At this point, his two models are dead. All your models are alive (although the guardian barely and Hoffman is hurt). But with no threat you can take the next turn to (0) self repair the guardian (which also heals Hoffman 1) and then spend soulstones to heal Hoffman if you want. Essentially, do not fear being charged. You have plenty of damage mitigation with Hoffman without needing +10 armor. If the red joker comes up for damage, then someone is going to die. That's not just true for Hoffman's crew, but just about anyone. Not much you (or anyone) can do to prevent that. Finally, since you wanted good ideas of things to Assimilate. Remember that Hoffman can (0) Assimilate Slow to Die from his Watcher. Then when he is reduced to 0 wds from damage he can use a soulstone as his slow to die action to heal keeping him alive. That even protects vs. Red Joker amounts of damage. So after turn 1 when you assimilated protect, in turn 2, 3, etc. You could always assimilate Slow to Die if you are worried about that. Myself, I almost always assimilate Immune to Influence (or Breach Psychosis) to give Hoffman similar WP resistance as the rest of his crew. Good Luck! PS - I never thought of Hoffman as a "squishy front line caster". He's got 10 wounds (Perdita is more squishy) and usually has 4 armor for "free" due to riding an armor 2 peacekeeper with a stalwart guardian around. His melee attack is (self-machine puppeted) Cb 6 and does 4/5/7 damage or more (with critical strike). Oh, and it ignores armor. He's actually closer to Lady J than Perdita, Sonnia, or Lucius as a front line tank.

Wow. This really turned into a Hunter bashing thread. Poor Hunter! I'm going to try to be more positive. Tricks I've taught my Hunter. 1. Early game: Stand by or behind the Hoffball and stay! Good hunter. 2. Mid game: Engage small targets while under guardian's Stalwart that come too close to Hoffball. Take the crows in my hand to cast Arrest (since I don't use them for anything else) on models. 3. Mid/Late game: A) Provide Hoffman with alternate transport now that the peacekeeper/guardian is dead if things are going poorly. Run down and drag back models that are attempting to disengage from attacking the Hoffball if things are going good. <--- best use C) Provide a way to drag things into Hoffball from a flank if they are trying to escape around the Hoffball due to a strategy or scheme. D) Hunt down single, small, weak, and damaged isolated models with caution. <--- Almost never works E) Go somewhere safe to count as significant at the end of the encounter. F) Die to provide scrap counters for healing or blowing up. (can do this at any time, but not my favorite use of him.) Does that give people some ideas? ---------- Post added at 10:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 AM ---------- Seems like a good idea on paper - and it's good enough that the Hunter can be a backup transport for Hoffman. In reality the following REALLY hurts the Hunter in trying to be a Peackeeper in my games: Peacekeeper gets (+1) Relentless giving it effectively a free walk. This allows it to move and still use flurry. Or double move and use it's chain spear. Or move once then charge. It's a massive boost to it's threat range, especially when combined with... Arachnid = no movement penalties for severe terrain or climbing. The Peacekeeper truly is a TRANSPORT for Hoffman. The Hunter is nowhere near as good. Also. While the machine puppet attacks are equal CB and critical stirke from both models, the Peacekeeper's are paired (for melee). The Hunter has ambush (like paired IF the model hasn't activated yet) - but paired works at all times. Also the Peacekeeper's melee damage values are higher. But the real kicker for me is... Hoffman can make his attack role models awesome in two ways...machine puppet or override edict. There are different times to use each of these. So a machine puppeted Hunter is good, but a reactivated Hunter is only so-so. A machine puppeted Peackeeper is also good, and a reactivated Peacekeeper is phenomenal!

IMO, if you're assimilating armor you're doing it wrong. Hoffman has 2 abilities on his card that let him get armor... (0) Assimilate and Protected by Machines Assimilate was ruled (rightly so in my opinion) that it only allows you to copy talents and spells, not effects - so you can't get armor bonuses granted from things like stalwart or shield wall with this ability, but you can get the +2 armor written on the Peacekeeper's card... Protected by Machines is a DIFFERENT ability that simply says "Hey, when the Hoffman gets hit, select a model within 3" and take it's armor." In this case, if the model within 3" is under a buff effect and has more armor, Hoffman should get it to. The ability says take armor not take a talent or spell. So why are you wasting one of your (0) actions to copy armor - when you'll get some for free using Protected by Machines? And yes, in this way you should be able to Stalwart one guardian next to a mechanical rider in power down stage that is in base contact with another guardian granting it shield wall to get a total of +1, +3, +2, +4 = 10 armor for Hoffman. (which honestly I can't see you ever needing - especailly for that points cost.)

Okay...so is "apply wounds" HERE: 3. Convert the inflicted damage total into wounds. If wounds were being inflicted instead of damage, begin here instead of Step 1. ---->Interrupt initial target resolution and pass wounds on to Guardian. =========================================================================== Or do you mean here: 5. The model suffers any wounds remaining. ------->Interrupt initial target resolution and pass wounds immediatley to Guardian HERE. Sorry, I'm a bit thick tonight I guess. Also when the Guardian "takes" those wounds...is he HERE: Guardian Proceeds to: 4. Apply wound reduction. First, any Characteristics or Abilities which reduce wounds do so now. a. Then, any Triggers which occur when inflicting wounds occur now. b. A model able to Use Soulstones may now spend one to prevent wounds. i. First, the model spends one Soulstone. Then, the model performs a Wound Prevention Flip. If any wounds remain, continue on to Step 5, if no wounds remain, skip to Step 6. ii. c. 5. The model suffers any wounds remaining. First, reduce the model’s current Wounds by the number of wounds it has suffered. Any Triggers which occur after inflicting one or more damage/wounds occur now. i. a. Then, if the model has been reduced to 0 Wounds check to see if it is Killed. First, any Triggers which occur when the model is reduced to 0 Wd occur now. i. Then, any Abilities which occur when the model is reduced to 0 Wd occur now. ii. Finally, if the model now has more than 0 Wounds remaining it remains on the table and is not Killed. If it has 0 Wounds remaining it is Killed. iii. b. 6. Any Triggers which occur after resolving damage/wounds occur now. ================================================================= Or is he HERE: Guardian become the recipient of wounds and... 5. The model suffers any wounds remaining. First, reduce the model’s current Wounds by the number of wounds it has suffered. Any Triggers which occur after inflicting one or more damage/wounds occur now. i. a. Then, if the model has been reduced to 0 Wounds check to see if it is Killed. First, any Triggers which occur when the model is reduced to 0 Wd occur now. i. Then, any Abilities which occur when the model is reduced to 0 Wd occur now. ii. Finally, if the model now has more than 0 Wounds remaining it remains on the table and is not Killed. If it has 0 Wounds remaining it is Killed. iii. b. 6. Any Triggers which occur after resolving damage/wounds occur now. Thanks oh so much for quick response!

I just think they should add a line to the pale and dead rider ability that says they keep the effects under each purpose until a new purpose is generated (at the start of their activation or when the proper spell is cast). Seems much more to be the intent. That way the wounds/number of models ganked can fluctuate throughout the turn and not constantly be changing the riders' purposes.

Outstanding question not in model clarifications or damage resolution.... Where does the Guardian's Protect Spell fit in? My current thought (not necessarily correct) is that it fits in AFTER step 6 of damage resolution...as wounds are being applied to the model, after all other reductions/triggers/etc. and then puts the guardian IN at the wound conversion step (so the guardian can't use it's own armor to further reduce wounds). In the case of a protect chain, the wounds then get (potentially) reduced by wound reducing effects then get again to step 6 where at the end protect kicks in. Key here is that if Hoffman is in the middle of the protect chain he could reduce wounds from protect with a soulstone flip before passing them along the chain. Or am I wrong and protect kicks in at another point?

Welcome! All respects to Rathnard (who has fantastic experience with the game and figuring out models). I do own and play Hoffman and have used the hunter quite a bit. I'll offer the following opinions/feedback on Rath's advice. In my experience, the hunter is not a "fast" model. It does walk at 5", but it's large base size means it often has to deal with terrain or "going around" other models. Since it doesn't have anything to ignore terrain movement penalties (like the peacekeeper or warders do) and it doesn't have pass through to ignore models, and it doesn't have nimble or other ways to easily generate AP, it feels slow to me. Espcecially when Hoffman is "attached" to a peacekeeper with arachnid. What does make the hunter significantly faster than many model is the Shadow ability. The free movement with shadow can allow the hunter to engage quickly. But... Away from guardian/hoffman the hunter is really quite fragile. It's wounds, armor, and defense resemble more a 4 pt. guild guard or death marshall than a 6 pt. model. So while it can walk off on it's own to take an objective, I wouldn't trust it more than I would trust a solo guild guard doing the same. That's why shadow is tricky. You don't want to overstretch yourself and just send it to it's doom. I've had more success using shadow as a deterrant than as actual movement. The chain spear of the hunter offers some nice possibilities - but really needs Hoffman to machine puppet it to be a reliable weapon. Cb 4 is just not that terrific. So, again, the Hunter becomes something that benefits greatly from staying nearer to Hoffman, rather than running off on it's own. Finally, one of the most successful uses I've had with the hunter is for it to be Hoffman's alternate carrier once the peacekeeper goes down. Again, for this reason, it's good to stay at least somewhat close to Hoffman. So in play, I keep my hunter detached (not in base to base contact) from the "hoff-ball" of the guardian and peacekeeper - but within one walk action of them. He's used like I would use a death marshall, guild guard, or witchling - as counterattack or bait or extra activations as the need arises. But he does offer some unique utility and options for the crew as well (a timely arrest is a nice spell if you can pull it off). I'll go ahead and note that when used like this, the Hunter is fulfilling a role that the new Warden can also easily fulfill, and with greater effect since it is more mobile. When taking into account the Warden is also cheaper by 1 ss - many people bypass hiring a hunter. Good luck with the Hoffman!

This thread is about using slow to die actions to deny Sonnia Criid a witchling. In a game i recently played, we had a necropunk on top of a cliff with one wound. Sonnia cast Violation on him and killed him. I greedily awaited my fresh witchling. But since the necropunk was killed, his slow to die activated, at which point my opponent chose to walk the necropunk off the cliff with 1 AP. The cliff was high enough to force a damage flip. So effectively the necropunk killed himself during the slow to die action. At that point, does it go in the books that Sonnia didn't kill it, so the witchling never shows up? I was a little upset by this at the time and wasn't as sporting as I should have been - but it made us both consider in what ways slow to die could be used to deny witchlings. Like, for example, if there are flame pillars nearby, can the model just walk into those, take damage, and die? If Killjoy is on the team, and they use the (1) sacrifice to bring him out with their slow to die, does that avoid the witchling? Etc. So please comment on if we're thinking about this correctly and if you have any interesting ways to avoid witchlings using slow to die. Thanks!

Page 13 of the thread linked above. Sketch confirms the following: YOU DO NOT ASSIMILATE EFFECTS. Therefore, the only way to assimilate reactivate is to have a card that the model comes with reactivate as an ability (not within an ability...but AS an ability). As far as I know, no models in the game fit this criteria.

Hello, everyone. I'd like to comment on the concept of Hoffman Slingshotting. As far as I can tell, it can't be done in the game here is my reasoning why: Definition: I am defining a "Slingshot" as the ability to move into position from outside the enemy's range, attack with several attacks, and then move back to outside enemy range. Hoffman moves by someone else moving. His walk of 3" won't get him into or out of range by itself, so the key is something else must move causing Hoffman to move due to Drawn to Metal. This makes the scenario: Move critter, attack with Hoffman, move critter back. This is all well and good, but the problem is that there is currently no construct that can activate first and give Hoffman companion or that can simultaneous activate with Hoffman that can carry him. Hoffman can either Linked In or Override Edict to make a construct go after him, but not before. Hoffman also can't Override himself as stated above. So you can easily move into range, but then must sit there exposed for one activation before you do your thing. It is very easy if you can keep the ride and Hoffman together and alive for one activation to then hit and run by activating Hoffman to attack and then Reactivate the Ride to get away. (If the ride is a Peacekeeper, it may be more advantageous to just keep attacking with the Peacekeeper at this point rather than bug out.) Key point: I haven't been able to figure out the scenario that does not leave Hoffman exposed at close range for one activation due to needing to activate the "ride" separately and first.

With your Outcast, Leveticus example you're better off using that last (+1) fast action to cast dominate abomination on the (now third) Desolation Engine that is 6" further up the board. That'll get you the addiitonal spell range, engine base size, and melee range. Of course, you've now prepositioned rusty alyce and 3 desolation engines in pretty specific and spread out spots...

This "definition" in the rules manual has caused more issues over time... Yeah, I agree (and also chuckle) that this is the problem. Not being a rules marshall myself, or even a henchman; not being anyone who has any authority; Just as someone who plays the game and tries to have fun - I think they need to redo this as the following: Effect - The result of a model's action, either through an ability, talent, spell, action, or trigger. Effects can be instantaneous (such as causing damage), can be sustained (such as activating an aura), or can be sustained-conditional (such as 'activating' quick draw so that the at the NEXT opportunity Perdita can make a shot). Effects that are sustained or sustained-conditional change the model such that it may be treated differently on the board for targeting and resolving other effects (for example: An aura that causes -2 WP to a model lowers it WP to 4. It is now a valid target for spells, triggers, and abilities that require a model be WP 4 or less - even though the card has a printed WP of 6.) Effects that are sustained or sustained-conditional can be dispelled or cancelled out by certain abilities. Unless otherwise stated, sustained or sustained-conditional effects end at the closing phase*. *Effects that grant action modifiers end during a model's next activation.** State - The state of a model is due to choices made by the players, and the physical location of the model. Notably, the state of a model is not an effect and as such can not be cancelled or dispelled. Instead, something needs to happen in game to change a model's state. Examples of states: A model is "in cover". This is due to the positioning of the attacker, defender, and terrain on the board. A model may be in cover from certain enemies and not from others. The state "in cover" can not be dispelled, nor can it be maintained if the model is moved (via a bury for example). A model is "buried". A model is buried through an ability or action in game. This removes it from the board, changing it's position. There is no "effect" called bury on the model and the "bury" cannot be dispelled. An "unbury" must occur to change this model's state again. A model is in "defensive stance". Defensive stance is gained by spending a (1) action. Defensive stance should be considered a state and should not be able to be dispelled. An additional consequence of being in defensive stance is that the model's Wk and Cg are lowered. I currently feel that defensive stance should not be able to be dispelled. It should "go away" with certain other state changes (like being removed from its position via a bury or switch). Likewise, I feel the penalty to Wk and Cg is part of the state and should not be dispellable (although other abilities/circumstances can modify the penalty for some models). "Summoned" should be a state. In this state, the model receives (-1) slow if it activates, but the (-1) slow goes away at the end of this turn regardless of if the model activated or not. (There you go, Leveticus' Waifs...) The issue is how states apply effects AND effects generate states in so many cases. Ugh. :/ Oh yeah, so to keep this on thread track... I'm make a model's weapons part of their state. When a weapon is lost, that's a change to state. Really has nothing to do with how long it is lost for - more to do with it not being an effect, but instead a change of state. This is just some brainstorming (done over time...not entirely fresh). Key point being that I think "effect" and "state" need to be split apart and better defined for a smoother game. My two cents anyway. -Turbodog

I disagree. I believe that Hoffman (like any master) can prevent wounds from any single game event. Just like how Leveticus can prevent wounds from using his abilities that do Wd to himself. When protect kicks in, it's a new "event" time. So when it's Hoffman's turn you resolve his Protect ability as its own "event" and he can use a soulstone. Each player in the chain does this: Incoming Wd! ---> Anything you can do about it? (object? soulstone? other effects tied to this damage?) ---> Wd Result ---> DONE with damage event...but just before marking off the wounds NEXT protect kicks in making this model take no damage and the next one have... Incoming Wd! etc. I believe this because the only the original model takes any special effects tied to the wording "after defending model suffers damage..." The protect needs to happen after damage resolution - so that the original model counts as having suffered the damage - but just before the wounds are actually applied to the model. I hope this explanation makes sense...I don't feel like I did a very good job.

We play that the silurid gets cover only if he has activated his ability to give him cover - or if he has cover due to being in "area cover" - which is always soft cover for our table/effects. "intervening hard objects" that give cover - like a wall or building - offer no cover from an austringer because it ignores LoS. I don't believe the rules manual makes a crystal clear distinction between these two kinds of cover - but in our game group, we do because it makes sense to us. It also makes the games much more fun. Examples of "area cover" Standing in Obscurring Auras Standing in Obscurring Terrain Abilities that simply grant a model cover...like Silurid or Alyce's Examples of "intervening cover" An object (hard or soft) between the models with height less than both models (e.g. a fence) Any object between the models if LoS is not needed (e.g. a building) Obscurring terrain that neither model is standing in but that would normally block LoS (e.g. a tree stand or smoke) An object or terrain feature that blocks only some LoS to the model's base, but that the model is not standing in (e.g. peeking around the corner of a building) The simplicity becomes that "intervening cover only happens when you check LoS". Models that ignore LoS don't do this check and so cover is never "generated" in the first place. If the silurid had cover, it would be unignorable (is that a word?) - but if the cover never happens in the first place, there's nothing to ignore. ---------- Post added at 11:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 PM ---------- Yes, Hard Cover also grants the target +1 armor in addition to the negative twist. In the case of our Austringer attack, the silurid (if it somehow has hard cover) would get the +1 armor.

@Timelapse: Should be pointed out that you still just make a straight up flip against the silurid with the austringer. The austringer can't ignore the cover...which gives a negative twist to the attack. But the austringer DOES use his "Bayou Raptor" ability which gives him a positive twist when attacking silurids (and gremlins). So they cancel out and he ends up with no modifier to the attack flip. But yes...the silurid does get cover from the Austringer.

Odd. I figured since the card had the v3 in the corner it was correct...but I see it is different in the pdf. Anyone know if I order the card from wyrd if I will get the correct printing...or...how I go about getting the correct printing?

Just two questions regarding spells on Leveticus' v3 card. First: (1) Blessings of Desolation "...gains the trigger...after enemy defender is killed by an entropic claws attack, ..." (Emphasis mine) So question is, when I buff someone else's melee attack with this, do they gain entropic claws, or is this ability meant to say "is killed by a melee attack" so that it works with whatever melee attack the model may have? It seems kinda silly to me not to, as all the models I see that come with entropic claws also come with this trigger built in. Second: (1) Entropic Transformation "...This model suffers 3 Wd..." Question is: Can a Hollow Waif cast this spell with "empty being" ability? I thought maybe so because even though the waif only has 3 Wd and it would kill her to cast it, "empty being" forces the waif to sacrifice herself anyway as part of the casting.

Welcome to Malifaux, Junkie, and welcome to the Guild! You picked a great faction and a great master! But there is a learning curve, as with all Malifaux masters. 1) Flame Wall. While it is true that this does do damage to those entering it, it's hard to make that happen. I've used a Peacekeeper before to "toss" (attack trigger that pushes a model after you hit it) things into the fire, but really that's very tricky to do. Instead focus on the fact that the Flame Wall is Ht 5 obscurring terrain. That means two things. First, it means that other models can't see your models through it. So with Sonnia, you can literally put down a wall that blocks LoS to help protect her slowly advancing crew. Second it automatically goes away at the end of the turn - so models the next turn will activate with clear shots (and paths) forward. 2) I don't know anyone that uses Sonnia's specific totem. For the same 2 points, you can run a Governor's Proxy which buffs your crew's WP passively, is a threat for the opponent to kill, can cast Sonnia's spells just as well (or poorly) and has the very cool Governor's Decree spell. That's if you MUST take a totem - but honestly I find Sonnia does fine without one. The suggestions made by others of using those 2 points for a desperate mercenary are excellent - but read the threads about how to use the Guild's tricks to get more out of desperate mercs. Hope this helps and welcome!

Thanks, Ratty! We played it correctly then. Could this get added to the new FAQ page? I know it's come up before as a question, I just couldn't remember the ruling. I tried using the rules manual...but the descriptions of Casting Expert and Casting Master left doubts in my mind.

Simple enough question...just need to check how it is ruled. Search is failing me. If Master Sonnia (2 General AP, 0 Action, +1 Casting Expert) casts (1) Violation of Magic with her Casting Expert Then manifests with 2 General AP (turn 3, 1 requirement) What does Avatar Sonnia (2 General AP, 0 Action, +2 Casting Master) have left to work with? Thought 1: 0 Action + 2 Casting Master (the 2 General AP were used, and Casting Expert AP, but casting Master is a different ability with 2 new AP) Thought 2: 0 Action + 1 Casting "Master" (the 2 General AP were used, and Casting Expert took up 1 of the Casting Master APs, so only 1 is left) Thought 3: 0 Action only. (the 2 General AP were used, and Casting Expert and Casting Master are somehow exclusive, so since she used casting expert, she won't get any casting master) Thanks for the clarification!

Welcome to the Hoffbrau, Mash. Do you have the twisted fates book? If you are open to it, I'd highly suggest swapping out Ryle for the Pale Rider from that book in your lists (model to be released in May?). Likewise, Wardens (models no release date yet) may do you a little better than Hunters. I'd consider this: 35 ss C. Hoffman 6ss total Peacekeeper 9 Pale Rider 9 Guardian 7 Warden 5 Watcher 3 40 ss As above, minus the Watcher and 1 spare ss, +Guardian 7 +Mobile Toolkit 4 45 ss As above, +Watcher 3 +2 spare ss The core of: Hoffman, Peacekeeper, Guardian 1 gives you your main Hoffman Castle. The Pale Rider is in all ways superior to the Hunter in your list for having a "detachable" minion that can operate solo - it also provides a terrific ride for Hoffman once the Peacekeeper goes down. The Warden can operate as a second level of the Hoffball supporting it and providing an alternate ride for Hoffman in a pinch - again, superior to the Hunter due to it's mobile and +1 relentless abilities. At 40 ss I kept your idea of "impenetrable castle". You simply must must must take the Bodyguard scheme with this crew. The Second Guardian and Toolkit allows you to make a fantastic protect chain with the toolkit able to provide extra healing. None of these lists is optimized for Brawls, as you just have Hoffman as a master. None of these lists is optimized for objective heavy missions or reconnoiter, as you really shine when you can keep this crew close together (save some Pale Rider options - but you also don't want to hang him out to dry...) It's a low model count list...but Hoffman is good at that. Happy Hunting.

So I noticed the other day that Avatar Hoffman (the Avatar of Amalgamation) is a construct (like master Hoffman) but it does not list Perfect Machine as one of its abilities. I found this odd, since master Hoffman has it and the other construct master, Ramos, has it on both his master and his avatar..even other models like Joss have it. So is this a misprint? Should Avatar Hoffman have this ability?

My vote (as long as you go guild and don't stay in faction only) is Lady J hands down. Lady J is a strong model on her own and does not require alot of minion interaction. I see that as the opposite of Pandora. Lady J can take good minions that are able to work without her. She of course helps them if they stay near, but they can also operate solo very well. There's no real tricks with a Lady J list (unless you force yourself to put them there). The trickiest thing you'll be doing is having a death marshall cast a spell that gives other death marshalls in range (including Lady J) bonus melee damage. All the models do is basic attacks vs. Df stat. No tricky I'm immune to X to worry about. No one is immune to being hit. (Well, except the Dreamer...) You're going to find that Lady J crews are the opposite of Pandora crews because they can operate so straight forwardly (is that a word?). On the other hand, I bet you're going to find it hard to win games against good opponents because they operate so straight forwardly. It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts. I don't think Hoffman is the opposite of Pandora (or at least plays that way). In fact, I consider Hoffman the most "Neverborn-ish" of the Guild masters since he is much more dependant on the tricky interactions you can get between models. Turbodog...inventing new words all over this post! (Did I type: Neverborn-ish?)

I think Calmdown's reasoning makes sense. I can't really refute it. The problem is, I still think my reasoning makes sense too. Decidedly, it's confusing to anyone who just picked up the game. I prefer to rule it the way Calmdown said - with riders keeping their purposes. It removes what I see as a "loop hole" that don't want to have to worry about for a 8/9/10 point model. At that point cost, they should be strong! But rules wise, I still think it is unclear.

@Calmdown and Bigkid: It was one of those learning moments for me. I'm not totally down on the Exorcist, or how the game plays, but it did come as kind of a shock at just how neutered I felt. I mean, I had done things "right" in my mind. Usually, if you make your opponent show up (slow) about 6-7 inches in front of your crew, and you have models left to activate, you can deal with it. Ortegas can gun it down. Constructs can engage (and maybe toss or drag it). Death Marshals can bury it. I made the wrong assumption that the exorcist would have SOMETHING useful to do to it, since it was undead afterall. Found myself wishing I was just about any other model, since a damage profile 1/2/3 isn't that stunning. @DeamonChild: The second bullet point is the more important one. I'm really having trouble getting good with Sonnia (the master I'm focusing on right now). I keep forgetting special rules, but more importantly - as you stated - I don't feel like I do a good job managing her crews' action points and activations. It's like there are too many things they can do and I'm still learning when it's the right time to do them. It doesn't help that hindsight is 20/20 and I look back after a turn is done and say, "I don't like how the table looks...I should have played that whole turn differently." My first master was Hoffman. I'm starting to think that Hoffman was easier to play than Sonnia or Perdita, despite all the podcasts that suggest to new players to avoid Hoffman as a first master.