The Zinc Lich

Eh, I was more talking about my 1e experiences. Collette was a welcomed change from playing Marcus, but there was absolutely no overlap between the two crews. There wasn't really anything that I liked in Marcus' crew that Collette wanted in hers. As far as 2e table speed, Toni and and Mei can both get around the table at fairly high speeds, but they have no way of speeding up the other members of their crew. Low movement shenanigans is sort of the Arcanist's hallmark, outside of Showgirls and Marcus.

Thank you for the quick replies, everyone! I'm updating the first post with the new information. Ironically, the difficulty in pigeonholing the factions is exactly why I am making this topic. I got into M1E with Marcus; I loved the model, I loved how wide his crew choices were, and I loved that he was the eternal underdog. Unfortunately, it turns out that HE was the statistical outlier in Arcanists. It turns out that I didn't really want to play with speed 4 casting machines, slow, armored constructs, and hyper-synergy crews. If I had taken the time to investigate the factions a little bit better, I probably would have ended up playing outcasts or something. There are enough models out now that every faction can do what you want. Even the guild can summon models, but if you really like summoning, you're not going to like anyone but Sonnia. Seamus will put out high powered shooting attacks, but you'll have a lot of trouble enjoying Reserrectionists if you want to play a gunline. The only model point I'll argue with you on is Ramos being a powerful scenario master. He isn't weak, of course, but anyone with the ability to summon significant models in high volume is good in scenario. He certainly isn't as good as, say, Nicodem at scenario control, or Molly. And they also have some non-master models that do a good job summoning models. I don't know what I was thinking about when I wrote that. Sorry, OP updated. The problem that I see is that all of the "pick a faction" information out there is focused on master based listings. It is fine for beginners and casual games, but if you go to a tournament, you're going to want to bring more than one master. If you only like 10-20% of the faction you pick, you are really hurting one of the main draws of Malifaux, to me, namely the ability to select models for your crew based on your opponent, the terrain, and the strategy. If you plan on branching out of your crew box, it'd be good to know what options you have access to.

Hello all, I'm just getting back into Malifaux again after a long hiatus (since Rising Powers, actually). I durdled around with a bunch of different proxy stuff during the beta, and I'm now seriously considering a change of factions. I have a bad habit of buying into armies that I think look cool, but I don't actually like playing, so I'm going to look before I leap into 2e. Unfortunately (or fortunately, I suppose, depending on your point of view), either the Malifaux factions don't have the same strong mechanical design choices as other games, or I just don't have as good a handle on the rules. I was wondering if I could pick the brains of players a little more experienced than I am in defining what the game play identities of the different factions are. I've managed to gather the following points so far. Please let me know if I am getting any of them wrong. The Guild: -Powerful, varied shooting attacks. -High base stats -Above average resilience. -Low movement shenanigans. -almost no summoning ability. -magic designed to deny enemy options -Masters that don't demand a lot of synergy in their model choices -Strong scheme marker production and control. -Primarily living, constructs as secondary Resurrectionists: -Incredibly high summoning focus. All Resser masters summon in some way -Terrible shooting attacks -mid-to-low base stats -average to above average model toughness. -moderate movement shenanigans. -moderate poison focus -moderate terror/wp focus -Balances low stats with debuffing effects. -masters don't demand a ton of synergy in model choices (they can mostly summon the models that synergize the best with them.) -strong objective running -Primarily undead and spirits Arcanists: -moderate summoning focus -moderatly strong shooting -high end survivability. -Moderate movement shenanigans. -moderate stats -strong burning focus -powerful offensive damage spells and defensive buff spells. -Masters have universally high Cst scores -Masters demand very strong synergy choices in models. There isn't a lot of crossover between a Ramos list and a Marcus list, for instance. -Average scheme marker control. -Primarily Constucts, Living as secondary. Neverborn: -above average summoning ability, several non-master summoning models. -almost no traditional shooting. -highly uneven stat lines. -extreme movement shenanigans. -High wp focus. -Masters demand moderate synergy in model choices. -Excellent objective running options. -Primarily Living, Constructs as distant secondary. Outcasts: -Radically different crew playstyles based on masters. -Moderate-to-strong shooting. -definite line between cheap, efficient minions and strong enforcers. -limited access to ways of boosting defensive stats. -limited durability of anything less than 10 points. -Masters vary highly. Levi and the Viks have absolutely nothing in common, statistically or play style. -moderate-to-good objective options. -varied model types. Gremlins: -Moderate summoning abilities. Several strong non-master summoning options -Super weak base stats. -high average speed, above average movement shenanigans. -Incredibly powerful, but random or self-destructive triggers. -magic and abilities focused on negating the previous two points. -Almost entirely living. Ten Thunders: -Each master borrows the "identity" of the faction they are Dual with. -Models tend to be focused on what they can do. An Archer does nothing in melee, a torakage is purely a solo ninja. -Easy access to positive conditions. -play style and crew content varies wildly based on master choice. -Masters demand *extremely* high synergy choices when it comes to list selection. A large portion of a master's favored choices are probably not even available to the other masters in the faction. -Tons of dual-faction models.

Okay, so what I've been able to gather so far is this: -She gets Hans, Taelor, Ronin and Desperate Mercs for no additional cost and gives them the TT affiliation. -She's bulletproof, wicked, melee expert and reckless. (Toraswap Student of Conflict trick gives her, what, 5 AP? Pretty crazy) -A pulse that allows friendly models to take a wound and immediately rally. -Hunter's Shadow, which hasn't really been explained to me. -a (1) action that lets her steal soulstones. -"You're mine!", a (0) action that does a lot of flips. Only useable on a model you've taken a melee swing at, it gives you + to attack and damage, them - to disengaging, and everyone else a -when trying to attack either Misaki or whatever she's engaged with. -A spell that pushes models away from target enemy model. Honestly, the more I hear about her, the more she's growing on me. I like the idea of trapping someone with "You're Mine!" and then just using all the rest of your AP to steal SS from them.

I know that most of these combos revolve around the Torakage, but here's one more: bring along a Student of Conflict and use it to gas up your favorite beater with fast before a Torakage moves it to the front lines. Next turn you can either pull something back with the Torakage, and have the student gas it up, or you can gas up the Torakage itself, and then it transposes itself with the beater. I suppose you could also use the Torakage to move the student itself so it gets the all important (all) action off, as well.

I was thinking like that for a long time. To be fair, I think that they would be BFFs if you wanted to run them that way, but, in the end, they are both models that can really monopolize your supply of soulstones and control cards... Not to mention the fact that I am in absolute love with the rail golem, and he doesn't really play well with accelerant. Not only does it give the enemy the choice of dumping burning tokens off their models so you can't refuel your golem, but you'll be burning it up, too. I think she will run just fine without Arcanist-specific models. The fact is, it is my humble opinion that Arcanist minions are the weakest in the game (to make up for the masters having some of the strongest synergy effects). Other than Kaeris, who will Mei miss? Gunslingers? I suppose that arachnids are good for setting up rail walker movements over difficult terrain, but really, I think that Mei brings everything she needs with her to 10T. EDIT: Pouring over all the information that I have right now, couldn't you get into melee with a Torakage, then swap Mr. Tannen into melee with a model you want to mess with? You get Tannen's Equalize Fate talent, which means you can pare down the opponent's hand if they activate the model he's engaged with, while Mr. Tannen is still Pitiful because he didn't activate to get there. Not a very useful trick for Lynch, as I can't actually imagine the enemy getting a bigger hand than you, but it could be used to pin down troublesome enemy models (Hey Rasputina! You want to put a wall in front of Misaki, you need to discard two cards to do it.)

I really like Mei Feng with 3x mechanical traps. 6 soulstones gets you a pretty awesome railwalker path on turn one; something to deal with fast factions nabbing objectives before you can get there. I'm really digging Mr. Lynch as a 10T model. You know who likes having a huge hand? Jack Daw. You know who really likes having a bunch of Terror buddies? Yin. The question is, what else would you run in that kind of list? I don't have the book, so I'm not sure how much the rest of the casino crew like WP shenanigans, and I'm not sure I've heard what else Mr. Lynch can bring with him. Beckoners, maybe? If there is an easy way to apply brilliance to your own models, Toshiro might be a decent addition, as well. Lure the enemy into killing a punk, pop out the Hippo, then re-summon it.

So, The list you have so far looks pretty good, but I have some things to suggest. First of all, the Cerberus. Why bother? I mean, I have never, ever had any luck with it. Roar is only good in very certain situations, and the cards need to actually get leap off are ridiculous. Meanwhile, we have the Rogue Necromancy in the Resurrectionist faction. It still kicks ass in melee, and it has Smell of Death, which combos with Marcus' Primal Surge. It has a 12 inch gun in the form of Acid Breath. For two more SS than a Cerberus, I don't see anyone using the living version with Marcus. If you bring the Necromancy, Miranda can cast Acid Breath 3 times with Furious Casting. If you want to have ranged capabilities, there you go. One Shikome is the exact right number. At 8 SS, it is an extremely expensive guided missile. I just can't justify 16 SS worth of harpies... The Waldgeist is great because it is a relatively tough model that can keep up with Marcus for the defensive order. It can also cart a forest around the board, which makes it an instant pick against Guild Armies. If the Ortegas can't shoot you from across the board, they become a lot less threatening. As a Scout, Marcus can fly through the forests with no problem. Think about proxying a Freikorps trapper. The +flip against beasts with his gun is a handy little tool to put in Marcus' back pocket. You are extremely low on models, although That is kind of the traditional Marcus issue. I'd either get rid of the Cerberus or the Coryphees (awesome, but no synergy with Marcus), and get something cheaper in there. I haven't tried out the Raptors yet, but they SHOULD fit the bill rather nicely. Heck, desperate mercenaries are great for early activations, if nothing else.

Actually, I was sitting around talking with some of my Malifaux buddies, and I think it would be cool (and thematic!) to have a showgirl liontamer. Having something that could buff both beasts and showgirls would be a neat way of cross-pollinating Marcus support and Collette support. That, and I like the idea of going "SURPRISE! Colette is now a Cerberus!"

Erm... excuse me if I missed an errata or something, but aren't constructs still vulnerable to WP duels? They ignore Morale duels, so they don't fear Terrifying models, but all of Kirai's WP shenanigans SHOULD work. Even if they bring Immune to Influence stuff, you have Mark of Jigoku. I'm not seeing the disconnect... I know that they don't usually bring a lot of things to feed the Resser summoning engine, but to be fair, the only faction that does is the Outcasts. The Guild is full of living models, but, er, you can't really expect to have any corpse counters on the table with them, eh?

Coryphee only have four wounds. I'm very leery about placing a 7 point melee model with four wounds on the table, regardless of what it brings. They also only have four WP. Seeing as my normal opponent plays Neverborn, I can't see a situation where I WOULD use them. Stitched together have a longer threat range, and Gamble Your Life will one shot a Coryphee that isn't dancing together. I'm surprised that Kirai barely scratched them. Summon something mean in B2B and shred it with attacks to the WP, which Kirai specializes in. Does bulletproof lower the damage off of Malevolence? If not, a single Onryo SHOULD be a good check against it.

Sooo... has anyone had to face the horror of Collodi and Stitched Together? I know that I may just be complaining because they are SUPPOSED to be that good together, but it just seems a little bit... extreme. Collodi activates, uses Puppet Show and Breathe Life to give the Stitched together Fast and Casting Expert. The Stitched together activates and then uses Gambler/Gamble your Life/Gamble your Life/Gamble your Life/Deepest Fear. If you kill it, it does it again. This was a 25 point game with Collodi in charge, but the player and I theorycrafted a 35 point Pandora list that... would be even worse. A single model should not be able to cause 10 WP tests in one turn in the same faction as Pandora. This was also the game after I was totally swept by The Dreamer thanks to the Alp Bomb. I really, really don't like playing against the Neverborn... I don't know how much Wyrd cares about errata suggestions, but I'd humbly like to suggest: A: the Alp's Exhaustion/Feed on Dreams abilities be changed so they don't stack. I know that they are supposed to get more menacing as they group up, but I don't like anything that makes a stupid gimmick list like Dreamer/Daydream/Alps x11 deadly. B: The Stitched Together's "WILL NOT DIE!" ability be changed so that if the doll reduces ITSELF below 1 wound, it's activation immediately ends. I'd like to see Gamble Your Life ACTUALLY have a down side.

Okay, so we are two books in. I, personally, am the kind of person that gets terrible faction envy, so seeing all the new toys everyone else is putting on the table means that I have spent a lot of time thinking about the kinds of things that I would like to see come out in the third book. So, fellow Arcanists, I am starting this thread to see if you have any ideas for stuff you would like to see. My ideas are: 1) a minion with the Mature Nephilim's Carry spell. Ramos, Rasputina and Marcus all have trouble moving around, either being unable to keep up with fast paced armies, or, in Marcus' case, having their army keep up with them. Having, I don't know, a mini-steampunk zeppelin would be HUGE, in my opinion. I've heard of people running Ramos in a December crew just so that the Snowstorm can drag him around. 2) A model that can give friendly models "Showgirl". I know this one is really, really unlikely, but it feels like Collette's girls are a separate faction, moreso than the ACTUAL special forces list. At least the cult of December models have ways of giving out Frozen Heart. 3) More models that provide burning counters. This is something that I expect for the next book, as it is titled "special forces", and burning counters are Kaeris' entire bag of tricks. Right now she is hampered as a leader by having to start all of her fires by herself. You'd think that someone would pick up a Flammenwerfer from the Freikorps and staple it to a steampunk arachnid or something.

So, I know that Marcus CAN hire beasts from any faction, but I'm confused by why people ONLY hire beasts with him. I mean, he doesn't support non-beasts, but it isn't like he buffs beasts overly hard, either. I've been wondering about combining a Lawyer with a Mannequin. After seeing how hard it is to kill a Mirror'd, Southern Charm'd Cassandra, the idea of a Coryphee with Hard to Wound 2 is pretty disgusting. A gunsmith/Convict Gunslinger is, in my mind, vital as well. There are some models you just don't want to engage in melee, and I can't remember the last time that I saw a Marcus list with shooting. If for no other reason, it allows you to safely take out the Alp Swarm the Neverborn can bring.

So, if you don't mind me asking, why bring the Steamborg? I mean, I've played a few games with it, but I've never really been impressed with it. Does it kill things in melee? Yes. But for ten soulstones? I'm unconvinced. Have you tried a proxy of the Mechanical Rider? I like its stat spread better, and at Full Power it is just as killy. It is cheaper, too. And Immune to influence... Really, I can't see much of a reason to bring the 'Borg.

So the people in my area are finally getting into Malifaux. I've been flitting from faction to faction, but I think that I've settled on the Arcanists, mostly because I think that Kaeris is fantastic. That being said, I have no idea what to do with her. She didn't seem very complicated when I first plunked her down, but I've been getting soundly thwomped in every game I have her in. As such, I'd like to open a Kaeris tactica thread. What do you take with her? What masters is she best serving under? Is she viable as a master herself? What is the optimum strategy for maximum burnination?