Imperator

I feel like I have a very different way of playing Kirai to everyone else here. As Most of my tournement lists run 3+ onryo and Datsue-Ba, 2 saishin and Lost love. First turn I look at the board and work out where I want kirai to be for the game, she will try to get there turn 2 and probably won't need to leave until turn 5 at the earliest. The saishin move up to locate Kirai where she needs to be and she spends the first 2 turns using in the spirit world to get where she needs to be, and then I tear everything apart with onryo and Ikiryo, and if anything is weak Datsue-ba jumps it to summon an onryo or gaki, and if anything scary arrives I summon a shikome to deal with it. Basicly as foot soldiers onryo do everything that I'd want them to do as well as I could want it done; they have triggers for ++flip on different suits, which allows me to do my damage to people when I want to I find particularly with this list that scemes like grudge just don't work, because the only model that I won't immidiatly sacrifice for evolve spirit is Datsue-Ba, unless they take both kill protegee and grudge against her, in which case I sac her immidiatly for another onryo and tell my opponent that's 4 VP that they are immediately denied. Anyone in a melee with an onryo is taking wp duels for terrifying, and if they have poor wp/good df triggers then I can ask them to defend with wp. Then even if they bring down the onryo they are slowed and I can just shoot the snot out of them until the end of the encounter.There are exceedingly few models that I've seen take on 2 onryo and do okay. Datsue-Ba just hangs around for miscellaneous utility. but can quite happily pick off any weak models to summon more gaki/onryo, until a cluster of enemies form which is when I empower spirit her from a saishin and swirl her in to swing at everyone using her cb 8 to mess people up. Also frances sits at the back of the table and tends not to do anything at all, because even without him my opponent's can't really kill Kirai.

Viktoria's primary weakness is her ability to control the board in turn 1/ turn 2. As such I feel that one of the following models is non-negotiable: Von Schill Hamlin Hans Personally I don't tend to go for Von Schill that often because it becomes a soulstone drain that costs me a bunch of offensive power on Viktoria, but against ressers he is amazing. I think the most decisive thing that a viktoria crew can do in any game is put Taelor in the spot on the board that she wants to be in, and if she can get there on 9 wd then you are more than halfway to winning. For this reason I like at 35 SS: Viktoria & Viktoria Hamlin Taelor Hans Librarian Cashe: 3 This is a small cashe, but the minions in this crew do a lot of the heavy lifting. Obey ads heaps of depth to both Taelor and Hans. If you opponent is coming at you quickly; an obey on Taelor turn 1 can ruin their advance, and if they are advancing slowly obey on Hans can have you laying down fire on critical models turn 1. So unless your opponent can deal with these 3 minions what the Viktorias is doing is superfluous to your opponent's plan. Ad the fact that you have a Librarian that is propping up your important models and you have an aggressive crew that can get it done. The main weaknesses to this crew are: ->mask dependence, Hamlin and Bounty Hunter are competing for your masks, if Hamlin is in position to obey-growing command-piper's lure your opponent then he get's the mask. ->control management, of your seven cards at the start of the turn you probably have plans for 5 of them: lowest or second lowest ram goes to the librarian, high crows go to Hans, masks are split between whirlwind and growing command. Bodycount helps you out alot here, but you are struggling for control cards for defence, and opponent's crews that go after your control hand can really cramp your style. -> first 2 turns you are getting out activated, all you can do is kill a lot of things to make up for it. On an unrelated note does anyone have any ideas for playing agains Colodi? About all I can think of at the moment is convict 'slinger for suppressing fire, other than that I just see a lot of models that will out activate anything that I conceivable put on the table as Viktoria and mess me up badly. defensive wall of ronin is okay, but as soon as they make a disengaging strike they lose harmless, which is okay, but not brilliant.

on an unrelated note twisted mind doesn't have a range on it, and Pandora's ability to inflict wd has a 12" range, so if you're desperate for those last couple of wd on her her Kirai/Molly can target her with random things to try and pull off twisted mind with no fear of loosing anything other than the actions.

Isn't lost Love's ability for when Kirai is killed? Otherwise that's just plain hilarious! However Absorb spirit seems to be a much better option than drain souls.

Datsue-ba is boss. She has a better walk than onryo, which are the backbone of your crew, or should be, meaning that she can keep up with what's going on on the table, she can splash about an extra walk if you have excess control cards, and she can be used to establish a material advantage over your opponent. turn 2 I tend to identify the first model that I'm going to be able to bring down; Kirai marks them as spirit food, onryo move up and severely weaken them and I keep my best crow in hand if I have one above 9. Datsue-ba moves up and throws wheigh sins at them with incorrectly judged and come out of it with an onryo, saishin and gaki better than I started the turn with. Whenever you seen an enemy model with hard to kill, you look at Datsue-ba and smile inwardly to yourself that hard to kill only makes that model work better you your plans.

I understand that, but I'm afraid that I don't see how anything that would make it an affect would trump the wording of slow to die that "if this model heals 1 or more wd while resolving the action it is not killed and remains in play" which happens after the model has been killed.

Is that written in the rules anywhere?

Prior to the rules manual it was largely a lot of supposition and assumptions that it couldn't possibly cost 7 SS for executioner if he couldn't heal on a slow to die and survive.

I don't agree that it's the best discussion of the rules in question because the slow to die rule was altered in the Rules manual (see above for quote) Under the new rule for slow to die healing does automaticly get rid of the killed effect. I was just wondering if there was any kind of errata that I was unaware of.

He really is. It makes me sad when people don't realise this. Either that or do either the moving or shooting during Hamlin's activation when he casts obey.

well I kinda feel like it doesn't occur if you were already at full wd however as you can't actually heal any wd.

Is there errata for Rules manual p. 118: "If the model is healed 1 or more wd while resolving the action it is not killed and remains in play"? Otherwise ANY healing during a slow to die action would keep you alive.

Hello, When a model has both slow to die and use soulstone how does this interact with triggers like slit jugular? This question was discussed here:http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18538 But seems to have been written before the rules manual which has a different definition of slow to die. My understanding is that you can spend one soulstone to make a healing flip as a slow to die action, but I'm unsure if you actually have to heal one or more woulds to prevent the death from occuring (as in if Von Schill is on 10 woulnds and gets hit by slit jugular, and makes a healing flip that would heal 2 wounds would that be counted as healing for pourposes of slow to die?) the other possibility that occurs is the killed effect from slit Jugular reduces you to 0 wounds, but I can't find anything in the rules manual to support this reading. Thanks in advance.