karn987

Personally I like including 4 SPA's right from the start and Rusty Alyce. I chose this because it gives an extremely powerful rush tactic where the SPA's do their thing up the field and then bring in the Desolation Engine. It used to be more effective when the Desolation Engine was summoned to them so it could be placed within 6" of the SPA's final location but oh well. What I also like to do is use Alyce to give one SPA reactivate and then before I use it up make the Desolation Engine. This lets you keep Alyce in the back and have the Desolation Engine having 2 activations this turn. Yes it will drop to 1 wd at the end of the round but if you can get initiative next round you can get it healed up by eating people. Even if you don't the Desolation Engine can very easily kill half of a crew in that one turn and cause a lot of trouble for the rest. It's aura is an easy duel to beat, but if you have 3 or 4 models having to make that duel you can A. Burn through their cards or B. actually see them fail the duel and take damage. Basically if you bring SPA's, your best choice from there is to go blitz style. Hit them fast and hard and make sure you back up the Engine with Alyce and Levy. Don't be afraid to risk Levy, just keep the Waif safe. Otherwise most anything work. Bette is quite good with Levy if a bit expensive. But I prefer my vanilla Levy lists. I love his theme and the models work very well with him. Just remember, even if you lose the desolation Engine, your just 2 SPA's away from another one and it's not that hard to get the SPA's.

Just remember, Marcus has access to all the beasts in the game pretty much. Just wait for a new book eventually and Im sure he will get some new friends in there. But while your at it, look through the book at all the beasts that are in it... there are a decent amount of them. Heck he gets the Monster from the Black Lagoon (Slurids) who are just plain NASTY in a pack.

Whats wrong with Levy? Nothing at all. Levy has single handidly leveled entire enemy crews and continues to do it. You want Alyce with him and otheri then that, its up in the air as to what you like. Personally I play classic Levy (SPA's and Desolation Engines). But Bette has proved to be rather dangerous with him, if a bit expensive. If your looking for more Levy love, look at some of the Tactica posts on him. Ive dropped some huge posts on using him and have had amazing success with him so far. Just follow 1 main rule though, KEEP YOUR WAIFS SAFE. Yes they can cast your spells, but they die to do it and you need them to survive. Keep them safe, hide them in buildings, behind walls etc. Never let the enemy get to them and Levy can dominate anything in any kind of pissing contest.

Perdita *nods* Besides her, generally it comes down to the cards. If I get hosed on a turn when I risk Pandora to level the enemy and rely on the wp vs wp duel to protect her. Thats basically how I lose when I do. But Im usually to careful for that to get me any way. I have lost to Sonnia because of her counter magic, I just couldn't get through it enough to do the damage I needed. I was playing the base starter set and Kade died mid way through when the Witchlings ganged up on him and essentially chain detonated all over him and Candy.

Well first off, you don't need bases for the counters, just make some circles the right size and your all set. If that doesnt work, the size for things like corpse, scrap, blood, etc counters is not very important in the over-all sense of the game. You could use nickles and be perfectly fine if you wanted, or even pennies.. Use what you got man, it wont break the game. =D

Yeah I have to say I would as long as it does include a ton of changes and really is worth the asking price for it. It would be handy to have it all there in final format just nice and easy for me to read and work through rather then my little errata binder. That being said, a page 5 malifaux style would be kinda awesome ^^ They already have most of the propaganda in the book, "Cheat fate or lose your soul", that kinda stuff could easily make a great page 5.

I 100% liked it the old way better. The Red Joker is powerful enough on attack to begin with, we dont need it also taking presidence on negative flips. It was better with the black being the one to be always taken. Lalo's example is the exact reason it should not be this way, thats utterly stupid that you have a better chance of doing more damage by making your hit weaker. I really think it needs to go back to the old way for a. strategic reasons, b. balance reasons c. fun.

Not a problem man, happy to help and glad you could parse it all ;D I tried it a few times at 25 ss and I find it rather clumsy at that point level since the 3rd sorrow is really missed. I probably wouldn't use him untill 30 ss, I've managed to beat Perdita with the basic set several times. What I have found to be the key is not focusing on her right away, but rather ripping the army apart as fast as possible. Even with the Governors proxy, you are still in good shape for dealing with them. Just focus fire and try to shut down/avoid anything your not taking down right away. Don't be afraid to let a hit through to Pandora either and keep the sorrow alive. As long as it isnt to powerful of an attack, you can damage prevent it and probably take no damage, if they even get by your Expose Fears to begin with. When it comes to Perdita... eh, she is the anti you so its going to be a hard fight the whole way. Just focus everything you got on her and try to time it after she has already activated so she has probably burned through most of her good cards already. But above all, use the terrain to keep yourself out of LOS and hit as hard as you can when you get the chance. As for Sonnia, eh she isnt so bad once you deplete their hand a bit, her biggest challenge is her counter magic, otherwise you can basically pacify/incite chain in and rip her or her army appart in one turn. Just stay out of their anti magic pulses and your good ^^. Plus Kade can put out some rather heavy damage with his trigger, mmmm Sweat Breads.

I can tell you the reason for that. Most guild models have high to stupidly high Wp and have ways of boosting it. The Governors Proxy is one way, and if your facing Perdita, your probably going to see it on the field. So now your facing an average of 8 and 9 wp accross the board. For Perdita, well look no further then See the Unseen. She can ignore Pandora's Expose Fears with it because she doesn't have to take the test. So because she never starts teh test, Open the Box never comes into play to stop it. Sure Perdita also has Immune to Influence, but Open the Box strips that from her (open the box " Models within 12" of this model lose any immunities to Wp duels"). Perdita also has Bullet Bending, which thankfully, has been brought back down from near broken. It just ignores cover now so it's nothing for Pandora to fear really since if you do it right, he will never get LOS to her. As for why Teddy over Hamelin, Teddy doesn't rely on Wp duels to be effective and guild is good at defending on Wp duels in general and Perdita is designed to kill Neverborn, especially Pandora. So take a look at Teddy, especially Dead of Night which can actually help him avoid attacks! I know its strange, a Pandora model that may be missed by an attack and isn't a baby? Wierd huh? Teddy is also a powerhouse and as long as he doesn't go down in 1 turn, you can do serious damage with him. Remember he is Hard to Wound 2, so most likely they will never get to cheat damage vs him (a huge high point) and he is Terrifying 13 so you want to keep him close to Pandora so Open the Box will strip any moral immunities from his Targets. Smell Fear is a nice ability, but I wouldn't count on it unless you specifically worked things to make a target model fail a moral duel near him (ie the Negative flip on Wp duels from Pandora). So a few key things to remember when going in vs guild and Perdita. 1. Guns hurt and you generally have low Def. Avoid getting shot where you can. 2. Perdita ignores wp tests she has to take to target something, Ie Harmless and Expose Fear. She does not Ignore Moral duels when within 12" of Pandora*pokes the giant teddy and his rather high Terrifying* 3. She can not ignore Pandora's trigger if you can get it off on her. Your going to need to cheat and soulstone your casting totals as high as you possibly can and don't be afraid to do this. In this match, Perdita is your biggest enemy since she can shoot you through your only real defense. 4. Incite and Pacify can be done over and over and over untill you fail to win one of hte wp duels. Use this with Fading Memory to litterally chain Pandora accross the field and into the right spot, cast your spells, then do it on the last few models to hide yourself. This takes some careful planning and a bad flip could leave you in a very very bad spot. So always try to leave yourself in the best place possible on every move. 5. The Governors Proxy is really annoying, killing it can be a huge pain in the butt. Honestly, if you can kill it try to make sure its a Sorrow who does it, or have a good card handy to save your butt, dieing to Governor's Influence is just plain annoying. 6. Don't sit in the open. Your quick and you have tricks, use every single one of them to close distance and mess them up as fast as you can. 7. Sorrows are probably the single best unit to take with her because they were basically built to mesh with her perfectly. Emotional Stress stacks so if there are 3 sorrows in 3", they lose 3 wounds (1 per sorrow). You can also link as many as you want to 1 model and Pandora has Martyr so you always want at least 1 on her. Melancholy is a great spell if you can get it off and they fail to resist it, I recommend opening up with a battery of these when you go after Perdita, burn through her cards and hopefully get 1 off on her. Then follow up with Pandora and turn the hose on full blast. It will be like that craft commercial, the Dinosaur with the cheese hose. Mmmm cheese. >.> Hope this helps! Sorry its a bit wordy but not enough time this morning to neaten it up enough!

Ok, I know this discussion has come up before and I'll give the same answer I gave before, this is stupid. There is no "best" master over-all. They are all good in their own ways and have their own niches to fill, we've been over this several times. One of the best beat-stick melee casters, Lady Justice. One of the best trickery casters, Pandora. One of the best ranged damage casters, Leveticus. One of the best tactical casters, Raspy. See? There is, 100% no over-all best. It's been said already, but the criteria is far far to broad and there is no real way to say one way or another. You can't throw things in a vacuum and get a real answer, and you can't compare masters who do different things and expect to get a consensus that has any meaning as to who is better. Even your expanded criteria isn't close to what it needs to be. So to say the least, I'm not voting on a broken pole. Try redoing it with more focused criteria if you want, maybe who is the most melee-beatsticky master, or who is the trickiest etc.

Is it me, or did half of the font on the forums get larger over last night? The Navigation bar and Malifaux Matters bar on the left, the forums names, and even the text when viewing a post looks bigger...

Pandora really doesn't need to hire much outside of her own crew. They basically gave her all the tools she needs to trash other crews and pretty much dominate the field. That being said, Hamelin adds some canned cheese on top of Pandora's massive cheese wheel. Hamelin with Pandora is a well established mean thing to do to people to the point where you may find people refusing to play with you when you do this. He is also a huge point sink (10 ss) and isn't that hard to kill if you can get LOS to him. Using him with Pandora is rather straight forward as well, get her within 12" so they suffer wounds on each failed WP duel. Stack her debuffs on them and generally go to town like usual, the only real change is you have another model with a bunch of WP tricks. I'd probably say always do Pandora first so you can debuff/soften up all the targets and generally ruin the enemies day with Pacify/Incite chains. Make sure to give them the negative flip on WP duels (can't cheat when you have a negative flip ;D) and rip things a new one. Hamelin then goes next and further lays on the pain. Imagine, a model with a negative flip in WP from Project Emotions and effected by Dementia, you then have Hamelin cast Irresistible Dance on them and boom! They can only take walk actions and have to beat a wp -> 13 duel to do each one, suffering a negative flip each time and being in Pandora's hurt range (possibly with sorrows to). Put that on a model with fast and thats 3 times they have to do this, it's great ^^. There are a number of combinations, all of them very very mean. As for out of faction ht 1 models she would want to use...I can't really find any >.>

I would never call page 5 as just a joke, they meant it to have meaning and to inspire their players to be competitive and play like you've got a pair. No one likes playing against the wuss player, you want a strong opponent who can give you a good fight. That is the essence of page 5. In the end, whether friendly or competitive or somewhere in between, it's all about competition. This applies to WM, any GW game, Malifaux, etc. It all boils down to a competition with the intent on having fun while you pit yourself against another person. I know there are some people who faint at the word competition, but thats what these games are in their very essence. For those of you who used page 5 as an excuse not to even try the game, read the new page 5 in the MK 2 core book, they fixed what your complaining about and even say don't use this as an excuse to be an ass-hat. If page 5 really turns you off, I have to ask why. What is the real reason. The tone is fine, the wording is fine, there is nothing wrong with it except how you interrupt it. If your view on it is the reason, ok thats perfectly fine. Your entitled to your own view (obvioiusly) and thats respected, just as long as you realize that is the reason why and don't make other excuses for it.

I'm slightly annoyed the Desolation Engine isn't summoned any more as the desolation bomb tactic was one of the most viable things to do with that model. It's still a good model, but now I'm questioning how effective it's going to be as it is replaced now and will have the remaining AP of the model who summoned it. That's going to slow it down even more. So not only did they cut down it's range by 6" they cut down it's reaction speed by a whole turn (since it will most likely have 0 ap left when it is brought into play). I'm kinda annoyed about this, I really don't think this was needed by any stretch. No one was complaining about it, people actually loved this tactic so why go ahead and "fix" something that wasn't broken? It's not like its a cheap model, 12 ss to get one and it has no defensive abilities... I'd kinda like to have seen a trade off here rather then a back hand with the cuddle bat.

Yeah its really not that bad. I keep print outs in my rulebook all the time and sticky note key things in the book Im likely to forget from the errata/faq. It's actually rather simple.

Aye, woot woot for sketch! :adore::adore::adore::adore:

Oh yeah, I still dont regret it and I don't plan on slagging her. Just one of those side note things ;D.

Really? Page 5 for WM turned you off to the game? I think thats the first time I've ever heard that from someone. Usually thats what sells them on the game.

Im not saying she doesnt by any means, I was careful to make sure I didn't say she was bad. I'm just sad to see that ability get modded, it was kinda awesome. Ah well. I hate having to play by the rules when I must =P More fun to have the models that cheat, but hey, she still cheats pretty well, just not quite all the way.

Ok so the new Master of Malifaux ability at first glance made me kinda annoyed because I bought this master for that ability really. But after reading the changes to terrain and the removal of blocking terrain, what kind of terrain is a wall then? I doubt it's anything under what Master of Malifaux covers so she still probably lost the ability to charge through walls, but still.

I wouldn't call it a 1 trick pony especially because if the Desolation Engine isn't killed right away it will do searious damage picking things off in the back line. But your compramise is interesting to say the least. The hard part is creating the other 2 SPA's you would need to make the engine since he can only make them from scrap counters and constructs and more then half the time, there will be no constructs on the field besides your own. If you really want the Desolation Engine then use it, bring the 4 SPA's (its by far not a waste and they are very very tough to stop fyi unless you have something stupidly cheesy like the guild Austringers.) and keep them lurking around until you need to do the Desolation Bomb and then rip the enemy in shreds. Its not that hard to keep these guys alive and very often the Engine will kill and distract far more then it's cost in models and when it is finally killed, you get half of another engine ready and raring to go. Levy is the true power here, this thing is a giant walking face eating machine that will take preasure off of Levy and do some damage to. I really don't see why you don't like it Oma, what don't you like about it so much?

They aren't that easy to stop if you hide them and make sure they have the "can't shoot me" thing up on the one infront at all times and thats not that hard to do. Plus when they turn into the engine, that ability will carry over on that turn so it's still safe. I've run it several times and short of the freaking Astringers (As unfun as they are) the SPA's have made it up field to Desolation bomb range and done their trick. It's very very hard to stop them if their is Terrain on the board ;D

Yeah, in all honesty, Levy and Alyce can be your only heavy hitter and you can still dominate the board. Their damage output is down right intense. Levy often just deals wd loss so its hard to stop, he can just snap his fingers and kill a 2 wd or less model and move on and loves to make friends. Alyce can gun with the best of them and lay down some seriously impressive fire support. Her spells suite levy very well and compliment his ungodly dirrect damage.

:flaminghe

Bugking, you think a scarey amount like me some times. ^^ I forgot to add that, but Bug hit it right on the head. The Engine alone is such a huge threat it can give you a massive amount of board control.