Omenbringer

14 minutes ago, trikk said:

But is it that they are bad inside the vacuum or just that Gremlins have a lot of better stuff (so internal balance issues). If Bayous were tweaked to be 4SS models (and by Tweaked I don`t mean just an SS update, maybe give them 5 Wds for example) I think Survivors would go up in priority.

 

If Bayou Gremlin's go up to 4 SS they will need a lot more than just another Wound.

Yes, Gremlin's can do some amazing things when everything goes right. When it doesn't though (and this happens quite frequently, especially against people who know what they do) Gremlin's are easily taken apart. As a faction, Gremlins were designed and need many of the things that are being complained about. Gremlin's need synergy, easy access to healing, out activation, cheap models, and suits. They are not durable models and generally injure themselves (or each other) to do the "awesome" things that people complain about. Take the Bayou Gremlin for example. Gaining the extra Ap from Drunk and Reckless means they will not be able to again until they heal. This requires another model to do. That model isn't free so there is an additional opportunity cost to the ability. Hiring that additional model doesn't just mean not hiring something else it means the player has to protect it and huddle the Bayou Gremlin's near it to gain the healing access.

As a long time Gremlin player, I would say that Gremlin's as a whole are in a fairly good place. None of my player group really struggle against my gremlin crews, truthfully they have grown increasingly adept at "weathering the storm" and "tearing the onion apart." Now that isn't to say that some models couldn't use a bit of a rework only that it isn't usually the "factional" abilities (Reckless, healing, Dumb Luck, etc.) causing the issues. From what I have been reading in the last few months, the real issue is with Mercenary models that have access to them. There is a very easy fix to this, make the offending abilities only applicable when in Gremlin led crews. I have argued many times that models designed for a specific Master, crew, or faction should work best with that Master, crew, or faction, and not outside of it (The Rotten Belles' much-maligned Lure action is a perfect example of how this could be applied).

In short, without trying to sound condescending (but it inevitably will), many of the complaints about Gremlin's stem from the initial shock of what they can do when everything goes right. The more you play them the easier they are to defeat, this is why they haven't been consistent performers at the top of the competitive fields. Sure they may be (debatable) right now but that likely has more to do with the current crop of Strategies and Schemes (or the players piloting them) than the actual models/ abilities themselves.

an intriguing idea might I also add a full-size Teddy house rule for when the Puppet teddies start upgrading with heart patches?

21 hours ago, lame0 said:

Reckless

 Bayou gremlin, Lightning bug, slop hauler, Merris, Swine cursed, Francois, Burt, Raphael, Taxidermist, Trixie & Fingers.

The reckless models are most of our damage & scheme running. Unfortunately this is how lopsided Gremlins are at the moment and there is no real easy fix.

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Just for accuracies sake, the Bayou Gremlin's are not Reckless, they are Drunk and Reckless. This is a huge difference as it effectively costs half their wounds to gain that extra AP. This means that they can't use it next turn unless they heal (yes, yes we know Gremlin's have ways of healing but those methods aren't free or infinite in range). It also means that they are highly fragile.

41 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

Name one that can be found on more than two models. 

Personally, as a gremlin player, I find Manipulative and Incorporeal to be far more of an issue. The former because it is a recurring effect (unlike a horror duel), the latter because my group tends to play with a lot of terrain (toward the high side of the recommendation) making it a very valuable ability. Aside from largely negating terrain for crews that feature a lot of it, Incorporeal also hampers damage output for normal attack actions (those using either Sh or Mi). For gremlins, this also has an effect on the Dumb Luck trigger (which is another of our often lamented faction benefits).

Sorry for the delay (had some issues with hosting). Here is an example of how I did one of my Iron Skeeters so they wouldn't be quite so delicate.

Iron Skeeter 1 Left by Dustin Smith

Iron Skeeter 1 Behind by Dustin Smith

You can see where I glued the legs to the base and used some scenics to provide additional support.

I don't think Reckless is OP at all.

It isn't free, especially in the case of the Bayou Gremlin's harsher version. Gremlins were designed around it and have been from the beginning of the game (way back in first edition). removing reckless effects the Faction in a very detrimental way, at least as much as the other often mentioned OP healing ability of the Slop Hauler. There are far worse things in the game than Reckless.

The only thing I will say about the GG Strats and Schemes (and the Standard Encounter version of the game) is I have never considered Malifaux to be well suited to the Symmetric Strats and tightly restricted Scheme pools. Limited Strats and restricted Schemes pools don't balance a game they just force players to build to them. This is exacerbated further by the vast majority of Strats/Schemes being score-able within a very small portion of the actual board. Being competitive means building crews to achieve the "Always" available scheme and control the center of the board. Despite the wide range of models available many are just not suited to achieve these goals. The models that are, will appear OP when compared against models that aren't. As others have stated in this thread, perhaps the issues with Reckless (or other abilities/actions being called OP this year) are more attributable to the Gaining Grounds Strats and Schemes than the models themselves.

On 7/21/2017 at 3:59 AM, cfrag said:

Iron skeeters only work for ht1 models, but I keep forgetting the pig ladder. That is a great idea to make him more mobile.

1

I should have been clearer, I meant the Iron Skeeters add to the factions mobility in a general way not specifically for Lenny.

If you are finding Lenny to be slow moving then give him a piglet tender (summoned is even better). Pig ladders and the Truffle shuffle really add to the factions mobility, though Iron Skeeters can do a good job of that as well.

I use him quite a bit in my Som'er summon factory lists. He is also fairly good at feeding the Pigapult.

This is a great looking project.

I would suggest just sticking with the Citadel paint line. They really aren't that bad and the new system gives really good results without a lot of fuss. I don't consider the cost prohibitive but then I always add some of my custom paint additive mixture to keep them flowing and wet (I can give you the recipe if you are interested). If you need a conversion chart from the old paints to the new there is one available however it won't be exact as the formulation has changed and the colors are slightly brighter or darker than what you would expect. Using the entire paint system (base, shade, layer 1, layer 2) for the conversion color does get it much closer though.

Here is what use for Gremlin Skin (I use them in this order):

• Citadel Base Castellan Green
• Citadel Shade Reikland Fleshshade or Citadel Shade Seraphim Sepia
• Citadel Layer Elysian Green

It gives a really nice look with minimal fuss. You could continue with another highlight layer (Layer Straken Green I believe is the next step) if you desire, but I haven't really seen a need to do that.

If you are dead set against Citadel paints then I would endorse the Reaper Master Series line. They are great paints and are available in pre set "Triads" that take a lot of the guess work out of building a palette. They also come in dropper bottles which are nice. Finally, they also take to paint additives very well without chalking. Price isn't that bad either. If I was going to repurchase my paints then I would probably go with Reaper.

Also I can post some photos of my Gremlin's if you want to see how they look with the citadel system.

I would second the magnetic storage suggestion for the Iron Skeeters. I would also suggest to try and include scenic elements that allow you to glue the spindly legs to them. If I get some time I will upload a picture of what I did with mine.

48 minutes ago, luckyreplica said:

I totally agree. Silver tower, skirmish games, lords of Hellas.. All games seem extremely popular and they are all board games or small army games. What also struck me is the lack of "professional" or OK quality battlereports. I dable with the idea of making one in a bit of a cartoony manner.

5

With alterable Terraclips boards Puppetwars could be the equivalent of Krosmaster or Super Dungeon Explore.

Would love to read some of your battle reports and highly encourage the cartoony narrative style. I always enjoy reading the narrative style reports (for Malifaux but could see even more potential for Puppetwars). Just remember to really play up the naivety of the puppets and the parody of their actions.

4 hours ago, solkan said:

For me, Puppet Wars is in a weird place because it has card mechanics that are similar but not the same as Malifaux (so you don't get any 'If you've played X, then this will be easy to learn' cross over in either direction) but the game is using effigies of the Malifaux characters so you get the 'Fan of the character' cross over.

That character cross over makes it really unlikely to get licensed off to someone else, compared to EBO or one of the other games.

This thread really makes we want to sit down and try to 3D print some toy boxes and mountains sized for the board, though.  

The fact that many people thought it would be "Malifaux Lite" was one of the major (non-marketing) issues with the game. Though I would also say that a major opportunity to cross market the game was missed when Wyrd didn't play that up and include a quick start rule supplement for Malifaux along with Cards for at least a Lady Justice and Seamus crew (the basics of which were present in both the original and Unstitched versions of the game). Could have made a decent 2-player starter box with the added bonus that it was its own game as well.

I agree the Malifaux character inclusion makes selling the franchise unlikely. Too bad as this seems to be a very distant project in the development cue (if there is any renewed action please oh please don't make it another reboot!!!).

If you do decide to print some 3-d stuff for Puppetwars let me know. I might be interested in getting some from you (or at least the files to use in a Maker space).

@luckyreplica Don't mind my dreary tone; I appreciate the effort. Puppetwars has been one of my favorite games since the original version first came out way back when.

Would love to see some new things for the game, particularly since the mini-boardgame genre is so popular now. Would make my day if future Unstitiched booster expansions (aside from finishing off in the larger plastics what was already available in the original version of Puppetwars) featured an alterable board layout (with Terraclips Floor tiles/ Walls/ Doors/ Stairs/ etc) and some 3-d terrain (breakable of course).

I still contend that Puppetwars was ahead of its time and still has a lot of untapped potential left.

AS the years go on it is more and more likely that this wonderful game is going to either go the way of the dodo or perhaps Wyrd will sell the license to someone (similar to what they did with Evil Baby Orphanage, though still haven't seen anything from that which is really too bad).

My LGS has most of the product line in stock and is willing to ship. PM if you are interested in the contact info.

On 5/18/2017 at 8:55 PM, Cadaver_Junkie said:

I run Brewmaster a lot, and have taken him to a couple of large tournaments recently. The Moon Shinobi have been standout models. Great defence (as good as the Fermented River Monks when the monks are buffed by poison), and incredibly potent with a swill or two. Drunken Gremlin Kung Fu is pretty strong.

While this works it shows the issues with the Moon Shinobi.

In order for them to be a viable option over the Fermented River Monk they need the Brew Master to dedicate Actions to just them. Even here though, I would argue, throwing Swill on the model the Fermented River Monk is engaging instead would produce a similar removal difficulty while also limiting that models presence (Offensively as well as defensively).

One thing that could push the Moon Shinobi's viability up would be another model that could pass out that all important modifier for them.

I would also throw in that Brew Masters stock crew isn't really that great. He runs much better in 10 Thunders than in Gremlins. Moon Shinobi could use some help, they are in almost all cases worse than Fermented River Monks.

I would throw my hat into the appropriately costed if  they were summonable.

As is they are too expensive to use them as tarpits (likely only lasting a single turn) or scheme runners (really does require other models to do well enough to justify over other options which again makes them less optimal choices when our cheaper options can perform a similar function (and assist the crew in other ways).

I would argue that a lot of the issue is with Sparks and not simply the Survivors. He needs to do more for the crew than simple hand out Fast to a single construct per activation.

@tmod While I like the idea my concern would be that they might then negate the Stuffed Piglets in a lot of ways.

On 5/1/2017 at 0:11 PM, Drakespirit said:

So youre thinking give sparks the ability to create survivors out of corpse markers or out of severely damaged gremlins?  

 

I think that would go a long way in making them more competitive

I could see it going both ways honestly. Corpse markers would be interesting in that it would provide the faction another method (aside from the Taxidermists who aren't very good at it) of getting rid of them (and we do tend to create so many of them).

I tend to lean toward using damaged gremlins though as I find that is the more balanced summoning mechanism.

Perhaps they could give it to us both ways making one function like Asami's Flicker mechanic (i.e. summoned from Corpse Marker having a condition which counts down) and the other allowing summoning of Survivors without the countdown condition. Hell I would even go for an "ability" (decent aura size please) which allows killed Gremlins to "linger" for a turn (think of Reva's stupid Shield Bearers though with a time limit or if you are familiar with last edition the old Slow to Die ability) and the other requiring an action (please make it 1 AP, Sparks has enough going on in the 0 AP range that struggles to consistently function).

I think this would go a very long way toward making both of them a bit more palatable over other options in the faction. I want to like both of these guys but getting work out of them (and the Mei Feng's Mechanized Porkchop) is a chore over other options.

On 4/26/2017 at 5:12 PM, Drakespirit said:

I want to like these guys, I really do.  I have fielded them a couple times and tried to use them as scheme-runners, but I feel like they are missing something (armor?) to make them really good.

 

Has anyone found a niche with these guys?  I love the models and the fluff surrounding them and want to use them more.

I agree that they feel like they are missing something and think I have put my finger on it.

As you mention the natural inclination is to wind them up (give them fast on top of Reckless for 4 AP) with Sparks (only one a turn) and send them off to complete an objective. The issue being that they tend to be a one shot option for this in a faction that has many other competing options that also contribute more to the crew or are cheaper to run (Iron Skeeters, Piglets, Bayou Gremlins being the best examples). While they do have some good defensive tech (Hard to Kill, Armor, Df 5, long engagement range and the Gremlin characteristic) they really aren't that great at tar-piting, particularly at a cost of 5 SS each and against either the "big baddies" or high defense models you want to slow down.

The best solution I can come up with would be for the designers to include an upgrade for Sparks in the next book that allows him to create Survivors from other gremlins. In this way Sparks gains an expanded role in the crew (he is also a bit underwhelming IMO) by creating and sending wave after wave of Survivors to slow the opponents advance. In this way the Survivors become a prolonged tar pit threat rather than a just a speed bump.

Probably worth considering Bayou Two Card. Not strictly a card draw action but an ability which does function similarly and also contribute to deck cycling.

Head on up to Cleveland and visit the Warzone Matrix. I know they have them (and a lot of other stuff to boot). It isn't a pretty store but if you are looking for something it is likely he will have it (even if it has been out of print for like 30 years). Let me know if you need the address or contact info. If you head up on a Friday night there is a good chance you'll see me up there as well.