Omadon

This seems to be the point of the change. The end-result of this is that Panda is even more busted than before. My panda list just gained 2AP to play with. /drool

Rath, I need to correct you on a few things here. First things first - Linked models don't follow pushes. It is possible for sorrows to snap to her, but you need to spend 1AP walking for them to remember where they need to be. Also - I don't have a book with me, but I'm pretty darn sure that construct/undead immunity extends only to morale duels, not the result of them. Making something fall back is just the end result of a morale duel, or - in this case, a seperate effect that isn't covered. It is possible that they simply say "These models do not fall back", in which case I'll eat my words, but I don't belieevvee I'm wrong. EDIT: Ooh, yay! henchman! I had presumed I'd get some kind of confirmation mail. Anyway, this is besides the point. Panda rocks /nod

The point with Killjoy is that when he happens, you want to be able to engage her as the next action - that way she only has biting chill to use, which is solid, but if she drops one cast, then the chain breaks. She'll have to burn a fair bit to break out of combat (3Df is hard even with stones) More to the point - she has a Df of 3, and Levi can pretty much he-man her if he gets in range. Be clever with where you spawn waifs, and then use them to slingshot him into position for a turn of casting, and even if you don't get initiative, it's not like you can't do it again the following turn Two other options are the hooded rider/Betty, If you can just dump a load of models in front of her, then when she kills them (as she more than likley will), she gets 3-4 attacks from Betty, and if she lands a single hit, the bitch is paralized. Or, she's 3-4 stones worse off, and once she's out of stones, she has no defence whatsoever against levi simply blowing her head off. Another point to consider is that her baby constructs (Should she see fit to run them) are prime targets to turn into SPAs - Desolation + the one I can never remember the name of (3WD, makes an SPA on death) Sure, Levi's going to kill him self in the process, but that isn't really a big deal. Allsooo. Why in gods name was all of your stuff clumped up in range? If she gets to kill more than two models at a time, you're doing something wrong. Sure - SPAs need to clump, which is why you do not recruit them against her. I'd even be wary about Alyce against her, due to how close she sticks to Levi. But tbh, I'd probably run her anyway, as you can usually keep her out of the way. Don't play into her spells. Bite of Winter has a tiinny range, and her main nuke is a ranged spell, so you can block it by engaging her, and the AoE is pretty easy to avoid. Pardon the somewhat tangental nature of this - I'm doing alot at the same time. Shall have a look at this sumore when I get home ^^

I ment belles - no idea why I said nurses. Wishful thinking I suppose Levi's the reason they aren't undead. Butyeah - the belles have lure to drag shit closer, and they have slow to die, which makes them perfect killjoy fodder. Andyeah, I suppose. However - from the PoV of playing Seamus, I'd be wary of taking her, as I rather like her being able to recur, but she becomes a bit of a one-trick pony against Levi, as the second he gets a line on her she's an SPA. Hm. Unless she gets the initiative and vanishes, but that kindof loses her for that turn.. Hm. Well I suppose she's a viable option Not sure -what- I 'd play against Levi as Seamus tbh. I'd probably counterpick a different master

Specifically Yeovil. I work at a shop called Witch Engine - we've had a fair bit of success running a monthly league thing, whereby you sign up at the start of the month, and it's played over the four weeks at a game a week, which gives people time to sort out when they're free to have said game. Either pop down, or check our message boards (Which I'll link in a sec). Currently got about 14 people regularly in the league, and new applicants are abundant ^^ Hope to see some of you soon! http://witchengine.gamefora.co.uk/ The league itself is played to 35SS - one master games, but you sign up two masters when you register. Thus you have a choice of two to prevent nightmare matchups like Justice V Ressurectionists as a whole Useful information to follow! Our Address! 7 South Western Terrace Yeovil Somerset BA201NB Contact Numbers! 01935427077 <- the shop itself. 07872831375 <- my mobile. Any further questions, toss me a message on here. I'll get back to you with all possible celerity. =)

Well, our discovery of Malifaux was timed well with the dry patch in warmachine caused by all the waiting for MKII coming out. It's pretty much killed every other game for me, although - the store I work at still has a healthy 40K scene, and a gradually improving fantasy scene. Currently though, our most regular events are Malifaux related. We've got a league going where you have a round a week over the course of the month - we don't have anything nearly so organized for the 40K lot.

Against betty, I would -never- run her against Levi. If Levi gets a round of casting, he can quite happily trump her Df7 with an equal cast stat, and she only gets to vanish if she's killed - a single unnatural wasting puts her on 1HP, then Entropic Transformation gives you a free SPA. Let them summon her I say Just don't activate Levi before you kill it, and march it off ahead before you shoot it, so she doesn't get to start in melee. Worst that can happen is she drops sever spine and charges somebody, which at most will lose you a soulstone if she aims it at Levi. Also - for perhaps the seventh time, the reason I'm all for Killjoy with Levi is suit coverage. Nothing else makes as good a use for Masks. Levi covers Ravens/Tomes, Alyce covers Rams, and Killjoy covers Masks. That way no high cards are dead to you - also, you have a long list of things that you can hire from the ressurectionists that have slow to die, which is almost manditory for playing Killjoy, and the nurses (my personal choice) double as a neat way to get things into casting range of Levi, who isn't exactly nippy. Fuurrthermore, if he runs low - you can happily feed him an errant hollow waif, or even in certain situations (Although traditionally I think this is a bad idea) use a waif/levi to summon him, as all you lose there is his surprize value. Which can be useful if your opponent is making an effort not to kill slow to die models until the end of turn four. I have more reasons, but they're already up here in like four different places answering roughly the same question

I have an answer to that - several infact, but I don't want to publicize them until I actually get to play with them Furthermore, Loco has what.. 5Wk? even with two Obeys, he's still going to have issues getting inside Panda's threat range without just imploding. He's got what.. 2Wp when defending? I wouldn't waste the points on him against Panda. Curse is a slightly bigger problem, but can be delt with pretty damn easily - Panda can play hopscotch around the golems, and with three active extra sources of trauma, incite/pacify 1shots them. Then Tina needs to physically walk into range, otherwise I'll be in, casting, and out again before she can respond. Jesus christ I love Panda *__*

You've kindof missed the point there. If the Dopple takes Unhealthy Relationship, then it allows the sorrows next to it to copy it's zeros. Mimic is a Zero. All the sorrows gain mimic, and then you can do absurd things with 4+ sources of Emotional Trauma, or play it with Zoradia, and copy Obey like five times over, and chaincast it on your own models. The possibilitys are endless ^^.

I'd presonally recommend against the hanged for Levi, sure, it's a good model - but it only really has any synergy with Seamus/Nicodem - it's buff to terrifying is nice, but it's real application shows when paired with the -2 WP aura that Seamus has (Along with his 4inch Terrifying 14 aura) or Nicodem, meaning that the model hit by it remains paralized for the rest of the game

Ambiguity aside - I do kindof agree. Running him with a bunch of Slow to Die models can often discourage opponents from killing them, at least until turn 4, where he has to be summoned or he gets bored and wanders off. If Killjoy is dropped in your turn, then the next thing to activate will be the opponent, but if he's summoned via slow to die, it's currently the opponent's activation, so when they finish, you move straight into Killjoy - so he gets to at least have a full round of beating on something before people really get to start focusing him down.

Copy unhealthy relationship, then stand the sorrows next to the dopple. Yes, this does work. Yes, this does lead to thoroughly bizzare games. Yes, this is also the reason why I'm buying Panda as my next master

For one thing - he's squishy. 9HP isn't alot with things doing minimum 2 damage. However, the core reason I take him is that when I build a list, I want to have something to do with every suit, and he doesnt do anything with high masks, whereas Killjoy has onslaught. The difference in damage as a result of this is astronomical. Furthermore - eat your fill is better (At least in my oppinion) than regeneration. fuurrthermore. He's alot faster than Teddy - blood price gives him a free charge alot of the time. He can pop out of nowhere, and pretty much murders anything that isn't a master in one round of combat. Not to mention that he has Melee Expert as opposed to Flurry, so he isn't limited to one attack off a charge, annnd. Christ, the list goes on. HOWEVER. That is not to say that teddy is without his merits. He's a construct to start with - which means that he's a viable target for Burnout. That in mind - in an SPA-heavy list, you can goad activations with other models, then drop a burnout on him, ram him into something, then reactivate and flurry. He's immune to influence - so I'd be highly tempted to play him against Zoradia, as Killjoy often turns out to be a really horrible idea against her as she just flaps around the board often killing more of my shit with him than I do hers. (Also, the fact that he can fly makes him even better suited to getting his hands on her). Also - another good point is that his death is far more useful than Killjoy's. Corpse Tokens are easy to get hold of, whereas Scrap Counters are far more difficult. Trading him with a couple models/just throwing him into the fray to abuse his terrifying isn't really a bad idea. In short - they both have their uses. I've played with Killjoy alot, so I've grown accustomed to all of his benefits. I think the reason I havent explored Teddy that much is because I hate the model ^^ There are alot of situations where I'd probably want to use him over Killjoy, but as yet, untill I can think of a conversion where he doesn't look like a brick, I don't think I'm going to get round to doing so

mm. he's not brilliant. I just feel like he's a worse killjoy. His main benefit is specifically with Pandora who can give things -WP flips and strip away construct/undead immunitys to terrifying. Other than that - despite all of his defensive abilitys, he's kindof squishy =\

Presumably it gains slow on it - slow itself states it's own end. You have a point, I can see the wording being confusing I simply presumed that ment that it'd didn't have any other penalties for being summoned. Can we get some kind of clarification on this? Because if you're correct, then I will Gladly eat my words. I main levi ^^

Incorrect - Slow hangs around til your next activation, not the end of the turn =)

Levi/Alyce with 8 SPAs? Caustic Aura > Panda She simply cannot, after a long turn of casting - make every single Df9 resist. Doesn't target, and they can hide from her, goading her activations in packs til she's done doing her thing, then slingshot around her and wipe her out. Either that or she'll be completly devoid of soulstones. Tis a bit of a one trick pony though, as if she -doesnt- die (from the 8 seperate caustic auras ) then she can project emotions the lot of them and they'll never recover xD Seriously though, people just need to space well. If people clump up - then project emotions with anguish is brutal, but she can only cast three serious spells, and she doesn't have an amazing cast. It's a pretty safe bet that if you save some high cards for your master to deal with resisting project emotions (Which can only be cast once) or anything she happens to drop a high raven in, as you'll know before you need to resist due to how spells work, then you shoulden't be in too much trouble. Also - if you don't stick close to eachother, then she's got to use mostly her own stuff for incite/pacify loops. If you break the chain of her spells well enough, it's quite possible to leave her stuck out in the open. Furthermore - she's fragile as all hell. If you have -anything- with an AoE, then she has to think really hard about where she stands. Tis why Sonnia compleatly destroys her. All of this in mind, I think the problem with Panda is that it's very easy - if you aren't paying attention to how you deploy - to get completly screwed by her. Hide yourself. Take Holdout so she either sends stuff to you or gives you free VP. Take Bodyguard and then brace your master for a torrent of psychological abuse. Surviving her onslaught means that she doesnt get to run away nearly as far. Also - her minions are all pretty damn weedy, so take them down and she loses alot of her psychic pinball game. And for heavens sake do not group up. EDIT: I just saw someone say Jones was shit on her. X4 Mosquitos dumping pull my finger on her says otherwise. Goad her activations with gremlins or companion the lot with Jones then chaincast it on her - she either uses prevention flips or takes exactly 8 to the face. Thats alot of stones, and if you get initiative next, then she takes it all over again. Jones Ruins Panda almost exclusivley because of that spell - you just need to plan for killing her, and not just do generic game plan X that you usually would with them.

I find it easier to comprehend the apparently superfluous sacrificing of the already alive waifs if you think why that happens. One of the downsides to the waifs is that they must spend at least one AP walking - and if Levi dies, then they must be resummoned, which means they'll only have one AP. Also - they need to stick close to him, so if he didn't kill the one he didn't use to respawn, then theres a chance that he would spawn too far from one of them for it to be able to activate without dying - as bare in mind, he can pop up within 6" of any of them. The sacrifice lets him reposition them however he likes - but also limits him to keeping them within 6" of him, so he can't permanently stick them behind walls if he wants to be particualrly agressive.

mmhm - if you're worried about alot of pressure on Levi, I'd recommend just hiring a canine remains. Shoot it in the face with Alyce then make the second waif.

You kindof need to plan for what you want to do with you're hand before you use him. Look at what you're capable of (How many headshots you c an crack with alyce if you have rams, whatever), and if you estimate that your hand is going to be wasted by the end of the turn, you need to plan for him to die - now you can either take a pro active approach to this, start him off early, burn all his magic and annihilate something. Orr, you can take a more preperational approach, as if you leave cards on the deck with Death's Lessons at the end of the turn, and he's going to die - then you will draw those, as he doesnt reshuffle his graveyard until after he's drawn his reincarnation hand, and then if you reincarnate near Alyce - you get two more from a fresh deck. Problem with this is turns often turn out more violent than I thought they would when I took his turn, which is why I recommend keeping something on hand with enough firepower to finish him off if you underestimate how fast you're going to burn through your hand. The tradeoff is that if you keep the hand you've got, play it cool, trade some cards with Disciplined Caster - then he gets his full three AP on his next action. Every single point that levi spends when in range of something is totally murderous. None of his spells care how hard they hit - just that they hit, so recycling is, on occasion, a bad idea. But there really is no hard rule here - managing this well on the fly is pretty much a requisite to playing Levi. =)

Godsdammit Craig you are so incredibly cheesy ^^ That said, the above statement will only work once. As it's very easy to see coming if you know whats going on, and the doppleganger becomes a horrendous bullet-magnet at that point. However - the potential for using unhealthy relationship to copy mimic onto things is ludicrous. Imagine Kade weilding Teddy's teeth instead of a knife? Not to mention what you can do with thieving other people's shit. The possibilitys are maddening. Almost tempted to pick her up myself

the reason you would take the swarm would be more for it's horrible interaction with Blessings of Desolation. Paralize on hit? Ithinkso! Also, I don't see much point in the belle/zombie in this list. they rock if you take Killjoy, but beyond that, maybe just drop them and take a swarm? Having X4 SPAs and X3 Swarms will really let you **** up most peoples activations. Being able to volley swarms/SPAs miles across the board when nobody has any actions left is horrible, just drop a burnout on both of them, and paralize everything that the swarm comes in contact with

Red joker is low >.> (IE: Doesnt supercede negetive flips).

Joss? Whyyy Joss? Joss eats Tomes like a madman, which are better spent on Levi. Consider the different suits you have access to when making a list - Levi covers Ravens/Tomes (But not to the extent that nothing else can use them), Alyce covers Rams with headshot. That leaves you a gap for masks. You don't need to do anything about that, but having an active use for them would be exceedingly helpful. Cannot recommend Killjoy enough in this situation, but you need to do weird things to make him fit in your list - no matter what people tell you, don't use him without things that have slow to die, otherwise you're just going to waste activations and get him shot in the face.

Playing abominations against justice is a verry, veerryy bad idea. Hell, playing anything against her is a bad idea Restore Natural Order > You. Still not -entirley- sure how to approach her really. The looming threat of just plain having no waifs is worrying. Fortunetly none of the justice players around here have decided to run Bishop against me, otherwise her threat range would be huuggee. (Adaptive Fighter for masks and toss her nine inches. 3 Damage doesnt really mean shit for that kind of mobility)