Austringer question

[hypoking]

Can an austringer make a focused raptor attack while engaged?

Baseline raptor is not a projectile. Even with the nastiest of nasties in their face an austringer can chuck out birds left and right without a care in the world. The rules prohibit a model from declaring a projectile attack while engaged. Raptor becomes a projectile when it benefits from focus. Focus comes into play when a action's already being declared. So, unless there's an additional 'check legality step' in resolving an ability the action is already past the point where the projectile prohibition would come into play. Or is this one of those things where there is an argument for a 'smart' game state which would actively prohibit an action that would later become illegal?

[Myth]

Can an austringer make a focused raptor attack while engaged?

Baseline raptor is not a projectile. Even with the nastiest of nasties in their face an austringer can chuck out birds left and right without a care in the world. The rules prohibit a model from declaring a projectile attack while engaged. Raptor becomes a projectile when it benefits from focus. Focus comes into play when a action's already being declared. So, unless there's an additional 'check legality step' in resolving an ability the action is already past the point where the projectile prohibition would come into play. Or is this one of those things where there is an argument for a 'smart' game state which would actively prohibit an action that would later become illegal?

I think you would be unable to use Focus while engaged. You invoke Focus when declaring the Action, rather than after the Action has already been declared. My understanding is that this occurs simultaneous with choosing the target, thus meaning that if the ability has a different statline when Focused, you use that to determine legal targets.

Notably, if the Focus only changes the statline after you choose the target, it would mean all of the actions whose range is increased when Focused would be useless. (Since you'd have to choose a target using the original range of the ability). Which obviously seems to not be the intent.

However, I'm not sure if there is any specific section of the rules that makes this clear.

[Mastershake]

I think you would be unable to use Focus while engaged. You invoke Focus when declaring the Action, rather than after the Action has already been declared. My understanding is that this occurs simultaneous with choosing the target, thus meaning that if the ability has a different statline when Focused, you use that to determine legal targets.

Notably, if the Focus only changes the statline after you choose the target, it would mean all of the actions whose range is increased when Focused would be useless. (Since you'd have to choose a target using the original range of the ability). Which obviously seems to not be the intent.

However, I'm not sure if there is any specific section of the rules that makes this clear.

This is about where I'm at. If focusing is done post-target selection then you create bizarre instances where you'd have to select an illegal target to take advantage of the extra range you get from focusing. If it's done pre-target selection which makes more sense then it would be illegal to spend your focus on the Austringer's bird attack while engaged because it non-optionally changes it to an attack that cannot be made while engaged.

Long Story short, my ruling if I were judging it would be that it's illegal to spend focus on the Austringer's bird attack while engaged.

[hypoking]

I think you would be unable to use Focus while engaged. You invoke Focus when declaring the Action, rather than after the Action has already been declared. My understanding is that this occurs simultaneous with choosing the target, thus meaning that if the ability has a different statline when Focused, you use that to determine legal targets.

Notably, if the Focus only changes the statline after you choose the target, it would mean all of the actions whose range is increased when Focused would be useless. (Since you'd have to choose a target using the original range of the ability). Which obviously seems to not be the intent.

However, I'm not sure if there is any specific section of the rules that makes this clear.

I agree that the part making this wonky is that the action is in the process of being declared when the focus comes into play. The 'no projectiles while engaged' clause says you can't declare projectiles at all.

pg37 is ambiguous about when you actually declare a target. It just happens during the overall process of declaring and spending. There's a bit of a flow chart involved in this (declare-> spend ap-> select variables-> declare target-> resolve abilities on targeting) but its nebulous as to what happens when. it's just not phrased sequentially, 'also spends,' 'also declares,' 'during this step.' I'd argue there's elbow room to throw in 'reduce focus' before targeting.

To head off a potential argument, the altered profile is not variable. There is no 'or.' The stat line just changes once focus is added in.

[Sharp_GT]

Weird that the action becomes a when you focus.

I think this is murky because there are no sub-steps in the 1.Declare Action & Spend AP step of resolving an action wherein you would separate out when Focus is applied, when a target is chosen, when other variables are decided etc. Based on the paragraph that says "..the model declares a target..." being the second to last (just before abilities on the target resolving) I would say you will have focused and then be trying to declare a target, at which point you would realize you cannot fire whilst engaged anymore (likely backing up the action).

Also consider that, when unengaged, to increase the range and be able to attack a model 13"-18" away you would first have to spend the Focus, then your range would be 18" and then you could declare that model the target. This sequence implies that spending the Focus happens first.