Mako Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 I was pondering this through the open beta, and now the masters are set in stone I figured it was a good time to revisit it. This is a place to list where masters have changed, lost or gained, so people can build their old style master again if they want, or see what's new in their favourite. This needs updating now the beta is over and changes have happened, so if people would like to post up changes and missing masters that would be handy... I've listed things she can't get back as losses, new tricks as gains, and upgrades as replacing/granting stuff. If it's gone to an upgrade, I've not classed it as lost. Lady J Loses: fear not death, paired pistol, sword style - fate, blind justice, combat prowess Gains: pursuit of justice, final repose (no longer a trigger), restore natural order (end conditions), juggernaught Switches: Melee expert for 3rd general AP Upgrades: Vendetta style - grant Unimpeded, replaces style - vengeance (always on) Justice unleashed - replaces old restore natural order Last rites (L) - replaces last rites, style - onslaught. Inspiring swordplay - replaces inspiring swordplay Flames of the pit - grants terrifying and immunity to horror duels to all marshals I never used blind justice or combat prowess really. With last rites/flames of the pit/justice unleashed she becomes an undead wrecker whose whole fluff crew ignores horror. Inspiring swordplay/vendetta style//last rites makes her a one woman assassin, especially with her healing flip to help survive any retaliation. Perdita Ortega Loses: Evasive 2, Execute, Spellbreaker, Anticipation trigger Gains: Runed Bullet trigger, +4" range, Relocate Switches: Companion (old) - new Companion, Built in Ram for Crit Strike - New SS mechanic to add suit and gained Point Blank for built in ram in melee (.......actually increases her possible damage if in melee), Faster 'n You - the new Quick Draw, Quick Draw - Finger on the Trigger Upgrades: Stubborn – replaces immune to influence 8" Aura +2 Wp for all family (including self) (Upgrade) Bullet Proof +2 (Upgrade) Ignore Incorporeal and Armor (Upgrade) She actually has more than she did before. I rate the Companion Alpha strike pretty low - it's a newb tactic. I rarely companioned more than 2 models.....and never more than 3. The bad-ass that is Francisco also just makes her better. She is also a pretty strong contender for Destreza Master (upgrade)...her high Df and her 'Point Blank' make her great in melee. So'mer Teeth +2 to Wds, -1 to Cg, gains damage on pig sticker but loses a little on boomstick Loses: Come and Get It- no more discarding cards to get a Piglet (but still there) Gains: Switches: Reckless - 3 Ap, Ill Fated - Quit Screwin Around, Pork Whisperin - Do It Like This, Good Ol Boys - Bayou Two Card, Gremlins Luck - Bigger Hat Than You, Dumb luck – thinkin luck Upgrades: Dirty Cheater - replaces Woops, Sooey Git Yer Bro – replaces Git Yer Bro Take a Swig – replaces Take A Swig Pull My Finger – replaces Pull My Finger Burning Bag of Ick - new Ancient Instincts - new Show Off - new As many have already said no more Pig Boomerang and his control of Pigs seems to be lost (possibly reappearing on Ulix) Overall he is better in Melee and more adaptable to whatever strategy you get. A whole ton of Bayous is where Somer seems to be happy, kill one and he gets cards, with Do It Like This he can control the triggers of the Bayous around him. Seamus Loses: The Face of Death, Undead Psychosis, No Escape Gains: Back Alley, Back Hand attack (High Ml, low Dmg) with triggers to attack again, or push out of Melee Switches: Terrifying 12 now affects all, fast for general AP, womaniser (belles can companion though), Necrotic Ministrations for Feast of Fear, Hard To Wound 2 for Impossible to Wound Upgrades: Sinister reputation – replaces Live for Pain, replaces trail of fear (range is decreased but is always on) Bag o’ tools – replaces bag o’ tools but has Increased Damage, range, and Ml, replaces Slit Jugular, replaces Excessive Bleeding, grants Make it beautiful, To the Pain Red chapel killer - grants Home ground Advantage and Distraction Mad Haberdasher – grants damage reducing hat Vik of Ashes cache +1, -1 Df Loses: body count, another one, sisters in victory Gains: Blood lines (melee expert in LoS), Fate’s chosen, setting sun, east and west, dragon’s bite. Switches: melee expert for 3ap, fates entwined is only healing Upgrades: Sisters in spirit – replaces sisters in spirit Sisters in fury – grants sisters in fury Mark of shezuul – grants ignoring defenses Synchronised slaying – grants accomplice to replace companion, sisters in battle Howling wolf tattoo – grants death by 1000 cuts, comradery (should that be camaraderie?) Vik of Blood (hench now) cache 7, -1 Wp Loses: Another One, Sisters in Victory Gains: The Uninvited, Fate's Pariah, The Falling Star, The Lonely Path, Flight of Dragons Switches: Fates entwined for henchman, melee expert now relies on sister Upgrades: Sisters in spirit – replaces sisters in spirit Sisters in fury – grants sisters in fury Mark of shezuul – grants ignoring defensive traits Synchronised slaying – grants accomplice to replace companion, sisters in battle Howling wolf tattoo – grants death by 1000 cuts, comradery Misaki -1Df, +2 Wds Loses: Wicked, magical bisento, reckless, decapitate, ten thunder strike Gains: Brutal sensei, thunder, deadly dance, feint, next target Switches: Purchased loyalty for Infiltration (Avarice), melee expert for 3ap Upgrades: Cutpurse – replaces pilfer (adding trigger for it too) Untouchable – grants flickering bisento, replaces save face Stalking bisento – replaces shadow, you’re mine (not fully) Disguise – grants immunity from charges She lost an AP and some killy-ness and gained movement defensive shenanigans (Mako’s note: Also lost some old synergy with yamaziko due reckless change) Lilith Loses: 3''charge, 1Wp, 1 Df, 1ss, brood mother, wicked, alluring, earthquake Gains: Wicked Vines, sudden darkness Switches: fast for 3ap basic, transposition for tangled shadows, -1Cb becomes if not charging Upgrades: Living blade – grants free attack on models pushed to her. Wicked Mistress - grants a lure style attack Summon the Blood. – grants ability to inflict damage on friendly Nephillim for black blood effect. Beckon malifaux – replaces illusionary forest, changed rules, grants instinctual. Rapid growth (not Lilith only) – replaces blood from stone/drain blood In general yes Lilith has lost a lot from her base card. Her stats have dropped and she has lost a lot of her defensive powers plus 2 of her utility spells. She has however gained a decent ranged attack and her remaining utility spells such as transposition seem slightly better now. With upgrades she can gain some nice new powers with wicked mistress and beckon the blood standing out as some nice tricks whilst the living blade synergises well with the ability of the crew to push models around. (Mako’s note: see the original post in this thread for a more thorough analysis, I’ve summarised for space reasons) Pandora Loses: 2ss, Expose Fears, The box opens, Unhealthy relationship, Dementia, Trapped in your own Nightmare Gains: +1Df, +1:mask Wp, +2Wd, +1Wk, a Charge range of 4, Incite trigger, Inflict, Self harm Switches:Fading memory now enemy only, martyr now afflict, emotional trauma now misery, casting expert for 3AP Upgrades: The box opens (L) - Grants Terrifying all and an offensive spell that causes horror tests. Voices (L) - Gives self harm/loathing the mental anguish trigger Fugue State - Grants abilities to prevent enemy from achieving objectives. Depression (not Pandora specific) – grants pacify to friendly woes Cry for me – grants project emotions Notes: Pandoras stats have generally gone up. She lost a lot of her powers but gained other abilities instead. Some of her lost abilities can be regained through upgrades. In general I'd say her cards read better and she has some interesting new options available to her. Zoraida Loses: 1SS, Bayou Two-card, Invisible Servants, Bewitch Gains: +1Wk, Swampfiend, Dual Gremlin Bewitch (same name as old spell but different effects) Switches: Enthrall now Wp4 models as mercs, Regret trigger ends attackers activation, Bewitch changed, Casting expert for 3AP, Create voodoo doll for You remind me of the babe, Obey gets some changes, Repulsive gets changes Upgrades: Hex - Same name as old spell but different effect. (0) spell that can inflict 4 effects on a nearby model. Tarot reading: grants ability to heal the Voodoo doll and chuck scheme markers around. Hexed among you – grants ability to deploy swampfiend minions further up. Raven – replaces raven Crystal ball – replaces crystal ball, automatically triggers and has 3 card control mechanics. Notes: In general the voodoo doll behaves more like a hollywood voodoo doll now. Most of the really annoying to play against powers of her are gone (infinite range almost unavoidable conduit). Her basic card doesn't really give her much when compared to her old one but she has some really nice upgrades available to her for board control. The alterations on the doll make it a less a means of mind controlling an enemy model and more a means of killing someone off. Ophelia LaCroix Loses: 3SS, 3 Cg, Instinctual, Dammit Calm Down, Evasive 1, Feud, Bent Gun Barrel, Dirty Shot, Right Between The Eyes, Dumb and Lucky, Like Herding Squirrels Gains: +2 Wp, +3 Wds, Reload, With My Eyes Closed, +2 Rg on Rough Rider, Plink Switches: Reckless for 3 AP, Calculated Luck for Thinkin luck, squeal for second loudest squeal Upgrades: Hooch Igniter, Jug Rocket, My Threatenin gun - extra guns that drop off and go on again, and an extra tactical action each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypoking Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 First of all I love this thread. Only minor gripe is that family tree should go in the loss column and companion(kin) swaps to companion. Edit: That loss column breaks my damn heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted September 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 Heh, Ophelia did get a real switch about. She probably needs a completely new comparison doing (especially her upgrades), but I don't have her old stats so am relying on others to do it for me there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypoking Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 Looking at her old card now. What you've got is largely accurate. They stripped out her fun bits and replaced them with more guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 Living blade now only grants improved melee range and the free attack on models pushed to her (but is cheaper). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgarbonzo Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 Looking at her old card now. What you've got is largely accurate. They stripped out her fun bits and replaced them with more guns. Yeah her fun bits went to Lenny and Somer so she could have some shiny new hardware to kill you with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacms Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 You sir are an overachiever. Thank you very much for this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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