when McMourning hits himself?

[geneticdeviant]

Had a game today and pandora cast a spelll that made McMourning hit himself with a melee attack causing a number of wounds.

How does this Interact with his rule that says he heals the same amount of wounds that he causes with a melee strike? Am I right in thinking that mcmourning could not then be killed in this way?

His card says whenever he deals damage this applies. Says nothing about hitting enemy models etc.

Please advise , thanks

[Ryu]

According to RAW I think you played it exactly the right way.

See post below.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Ryu

[geneticdeviant]

According to RAW I think you played it exactly the right way.

Well we played it where mcmourning wounded himself but didnt heal. My opponent argued that technically pandora was doing the damage as she was controlling mcmourning through the spell so that mcmourning wouldnt get to heal.

I argued he should get to heal. Who is right here ?

[Csonti]

The damage flip from Self-Loathing is not considered an attack in itself. McM heals only from damage caused by attacks. So I would say no to healing.

EDIT: The control part has no relevance in this case. In general abilities work on a model even he or she is enemy controlled.

[Ryu]

The damage flip from Self-Loathing is not considered an attack in itself. McM heals only from damage caused by attacks. So I would say no to healing.

EDIT: The control part has no relevance in this case. In general abilities work on a model even he or she is enemy controlled.

I believe there's two keys here:

1) Self-Loathing says you use the melee weapon of the model and simply inflict a damage flip

2) Control is a big issue here, if you rule that it is McMourning being forced to attack himself he would take no damage due to a heal.

So the questions really revolve around self-loathing. Who is controlling the character at that moment?

Facts:

A damage flip is made

This flip uses the target's melee weapon

Unknowns:

Who is damaging the target model - Pandora, or the target?

Does the wording of Self-Loathing constitute a simple damage flip, or is it actually the model inflicting damage upon itself?

Re-reading the rules I'd have to say I'm quite undecided now. I want to lean toward McMourning would heal from a fluff standpoint but from how Self-Loathing is worded I'm not sure.

If the damage source from Self-Loathing comes from the target model, I'm sure McMourning would heal.

My opinion is that the damage is coming from McMourning. Self-Loathing says you use the target's melee weapon and inflict damage with the target's melee weapon.

Edit: And it appears I'm wrong. At least from how the FAQ is worded. See the second entry about Self-Loathing in the FAQ. It states that the caster makes the damage flip.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Ryu

[sharpobjects]

Self-loathing does not use the difference in cast/resist totals to modify the Damage Flip. After the target has lost the Resist Duel the Caster makes a basic Damage Flip using the Weapon's Dg stat, , and any Ability modifiers that apply. The flip cannot be Cheated, regardless of its final fate modifier.

How's that?

McMourning is not being hit with a melee attack when he takes damage from his own weapon via self-loathing. He does not heal. Unless he wants to spend a stone to wound prevent

[vulture96]

The idea of McMourning's heal is that he has the expertise to use the scalpel to cut in a way that gives him body parts to heal.

Conceptually - if Pandora is controlling McMourning's attack - she would prevent him from being so precise.

A related question is when a Belle lures a model with the 'arachnid' trait from height -- does the arachnid ability prevent falling damage because the model can walk down the height?

I have been playing arachnid doesn't prevent falling damage but 'flight' does.

thoughts?

[Ryu]

Pushes have to use the shortest route, so I believe it would fall - that being the shortest route.

[Golden]

A model with arachnid ignores climbing penalties, so climbing down and falling down an elevation would be the same distance.