Flame wall and lure

[Spifferson]

Do Flame Wall markers count as terrain for the purpose of lure?

Example: Sonnia casts Flame Wall in front of her minions and with a narrow gap I am able to lure them forward. If the markers count as terrain they could try to avoid it, Lure being a "push towards". However there is no mention of avoiding markers, or if the Flame Wall markers are actual terrain and so then avoidable.

-Thanks for your insight.

[Tokaji]

As far as I'm aware, they would be pushed into it. Flame Wall is terrain, but it isn't impassable or difficult (if I remember correctly), so the model still has to take the shortest route towards the lurer, which would be through the wall.

[Ryu]

As far as I'm aware, they would be pushed into it. Flame Wall is terrain, but it isn't impassable or difficult (if I remember correctly), so the model still has to take the shortest route towards the lurer, which would be through the wall.

Yup, I'm quite sure this is correct.

[Spifferson]

As far as I'm aware, they would be pushed into it. Flame Wall is terrain, but it isn't impassable or difficult (if I remember correctly), so the model still has to take the shortest route towards the lurer, which would be through the wall.

My issue would be that lure is towards and not directly towards. The rules on pg 34 in book1.5 say that a model may move to avoid terrain so long as they do not end there movement further away from the caster then they began.

However the towards/away rules do not mention that you can avoid markers (i.e.. flame wall) and the specific rules on markers say that they are not considered terrain. pg 22

Edited March 18, 2013 by Spifferson

[Tokaji]

While yes, you are correct, the model still has to move by the shortest route possible. So if the Flame Wall were dangerous terrain that slowed the model down, then going around might be shorter, but since it's not, they have to move through.

Not to mention, and this kind of precludes the argument, the opponent gets to choose the path. This is clarified in the FAQ:

Q: We have a question about who controls a model when resolving an effect. For example, if my opponent uses a Talent or Spell that allows her to Push my model which of us is the model's Controller during the Push?

A: You are. A model’s Controller changes only when indicated in a description. Your opponent may be directing where the model goes, but its Controller has not changed.

It also states:

Q: If an effect allows me to Push an enemy model (no restriction on direction), can I choose to push it off an elevation, or onto a Shafted counter, or into hot lava?

A: Yes. As long as the Push is a legal move, the model can be Pushed into terrain/effects that can harm it.

So, as long as it is following the rules of pushing towards - eg ending up closer and taking the shortest route - if it passes through a Flame Wall, so be it.

[Ryu]

I think you just answered your own question. I've always interpreted the ruling on pg 35 of the rules manual to refer to blocking terrain - though on rereading it that's not specified.

In this instance you are 100% correct that markers are not terrain, and thus must be walked through.

Which makes me wonder how this rule would play out if instead you had Rasputina's Ice Pillars instead of Flame Walls, they're not considered terrain either right?

[Tokaji]

Actually, now that I'm looking at the cards, Flame Wall isn't terrain, and Ice Pillars specifically say they are impassable terrain. So there's the simple answer.