Hamelin and Duels.

[Ausplosions]

I need some help with the Duel mechanic.

Or more specifically, how it works for Hamelin.

I am attacking in melee.

I flip and am losing with a 9.

Opponent flips and is winning with a 10.

I cheat higher.

*is it at this point my previous flipped card is placed onto the discard pile?*

Opponent cheats and is drawing.

Can I draw my 9 back from the discard pile now?

Also, is it any duel that the Hamelin draw mechanic works, or just duels involving Hamelin?

[DocMoen]

Yes, the initial duel card gets discarded when you cheat, so you would be able to pick it up.

It is every time your opponent plays (cheats) a card. You don't even need to be involved (ie. spell casting)

[TheUnseemlyOne]

Yes, the initial duel card gets discarded when you cheat, so you would be able to pick it up.

It is every time your opponent plays (cheats) a card. You don't even need to be involved (ie. spell casting)

I think I need to disagree.

Cheating Fate: Playing a Control Card from a Hand to Replace the Fate Card in play is called Cheating Fate. All models can Cheat Fate but only when the rules allow them to do so. The played Control Card becomes the new Fate Card, and is placed on top of the previous Fate Card until the event is resolved.

After a game event in which a player used Cards is completed, immediately move those Cards to that player's discard pile, face up, in the order that they were used with the last Card used on the top.

This reads to me like the cards are not moved to the discard pile until the duel is completely resolved. So by my understanding, you would draw whatever card was on top of the discard pile before the duel started.

Also, is it any duel that the Hamelin draw mechanic works, or just duels involving Hamelin?

The Void allows you to draw a card whenever the opponent you nominated that turn plays a control card.

Edited December 29, 2012 by elusive87

[ZiggyQubert]

elusive87 is correct cards are placed on the discard pile after the dule is resolved, so you flip a card cheet, soulstone etc... After the duel is finished you place them on top of the dicard pile, so for a regular dule both players play all the cards, cheet, soulstone etc, then cards go in the discard pile, then damage flips would happen, then the damage cards would be placed in the discard pile

[DocMoen]

Guess, I was playing the first part wrong then. Thanks for the heads up.

You just repeated what I said about the Void.

[TheUnseemlyOne]

I was just trying to clarify that for The Void that it is specifically one opponent that you nominate each turn. This only really matters if you play a game with multiple opponents though. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

[Tiaden]

In which order are the cards placed into the discard pile. Lets assume a flip with 2 positive twists, that got cheated and soulstoned.

I would assume that the first drawn 3 cards are placed in any order the owning player chooses on top of that the cheated card and then the soulstoned card. I assume this because of "... in the order that they were used ...". But it would be nice to have a way to put the cheated card on top because thats usually the one you want to pick up later on and well all cards are used simultaneously to build the duel total. Used is not equal to drawn, played, etc.

[Mister Tezla]

to my understanding even if you cheat, the original card is still technicly in play as the Duel/Action has not been resolved. In games where I am playing Hamelin I keep all cards fr that action aside from my discard pile ( so original flipped card, cheated card, and damage cards flipped/cheat) and draw from the discard or library if the opponent cheats. Then the cards I put aside from my action goes into the discard pile only after that action is finished.

[TheUnseemlyOne]

Basically the card that was last used is always on top. So you in your example, you start the duel with a flip with positive twists. After you flip all those cards you pick one to set your starting total, and stack the cards with that one on top. Then you cheat your card, so that card goes on top of the other three. My understanding is that the soulstoned card would go on top of the cheated card when they go into the discard simply because it was the last card used.

[Ausplosions]

Once the Duel is finished, the cards are discarded in the reverse order they were flipped/cheated (so last played on top).

Then you start a new pile for the damage flips.

Is that all correct?

[TheUnseemlyOne]

To get the last card played on top, you actually need to discard them in the same order that they were flipped/used. Basically just move the stack of cards to the top of your discard pile without changing the order. The damage flips would start a new pile, yes.

[FearLord]

Basically the card that was last used is always on top. So you in your example, you start the duel with a flip with positive twists. After you flip all those cards you pick one to set your starting total, and stack the cards with that one on top. Then you cheat your card, so that card goes on top of the other three. My understanding is that the soulstoned card would go on top of the cheated card when they go into the discard simply because it was the last card used.

I would agree with this, but I'd overlay the Soul stone card off slightly, as its additional to the other card that is "active", but as it was played last it should be on top.

Once the action is over, pick up the whole stack of cards used for the action, and move the whole group over to the discard pile in the order the mini stack is currently in.

[TheUnseemlyOne]

I agree. The RM actually says to leave the soulstoned card next to the active card. I only meant that it should be placed on top once the duel is over and all the cards are discarded.