Terrifying (Anethema), Collodi and Marionettes

[Korrosion]

Had this come up in a game yesterday. A Marionette(A) is about 12 inches away from collodi, 3 other marionettes(B,C,and D) and ASeamus is within melee of Collodi, B, C, and D. ASeamus has already activated. (A) activates and pushes to within 8" of Collodi. (A) then pulls strings and moves .0000001 inches towards collodi and places Collodi on the far side of himself away from ASeamus. Then B activates and has to push to within 8" of Collodi which is out of ASeamus' melee range. Does ( have to take a Terrifying test before pushing to within 8" of Collodi? After? Should I draw up something in paint so this question makes sense?

The relevant rules as far as I can tell are on page 57 for terrifying and on the Marionettes card under Collodi's dolls. One says test on activation, the other says if outside of 8" immediately push to within 8". Which one takes priority?

[The Godlyness]

did the model activate while in seamus melee range? if so then would test.

[Twisted Metal]

Actually I think it's your choice. Because both effects occur at the same time the controlling player would choose the order in which the effects resolve. It's the same situation resolving regen and poison.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Twisted Metal

[The Godlyness]

i would have to go with yes still, for the simple fact the first thing you do is activate after you have activated you must immediately push. but mind you if you failed the terror test you would still push cause who cares about running away when you just push about. if you really wanted to try falling back just to get pulled back guess its all in the semantics.

but if i am wrong and it goes simultaneous then sure its a no. but when you say i am activating you take the Terror test. any effects generated afterwards would be put on hold till that morale duel is done.

[Twisted Metal]

The problem is that both effects take place as soon as the model activates. Terrifying states "begins its activation" and Collodi's Doll states "starts its activation". To me its sounds like the intent of both rules is that they are both the very first thing to occur when a model activates. If they are both the first thing to occur then its simultaneous. If you can show me something that would indicate that its not simultaneous I’m all ears. BTW I’m not being biased here. I also play Seamus and would love to see a ruling go against Collodi. I just don’t think this is the one.

[Korrosion]

The only thing that makes me lean towards push to collodi first is that the text on the marionettes says "immediately", while the terrifying test is just on activation. In either case I feel it would be good to know for sure.

[FoolWithTheFez]

If they are both the first thing to occur then its simultaneous. If you can show me something that would indicate that its not simultaneous I’m all ears.

From the FAQ:

Q When a model must resolve multiple non-environmental effects that are not controlled by the player at the start of its activation, for example Poison 1 and Regeneration 1, what order are the effects resolved in?

A: The model’s Controller may choose the order in which the effects are resolved.

Seems pretty cut and dry. You can choose which happens first. It does seem to me that you'd still have to make the morale duel even if you chose to push the marionette out of range first, because you still began its activation inside the radius of effect

[Gruesome]

From the FAQ:

Q When a model must resolve multiple non-environmental effects that are not controlled by the player at the start of its activation, for example Poison 1 and Regeneration 1, what order are the effects resolved in?

A: The model’s Controller may choose the order in which the effects are resolved.

Seems pretty cut and dry. You can choose which happens first. It does seem to me that you'd still have to make the morale duel even if you chose to push the marionette out of range first, because you still began its activation inside the radius of effect

It seems odd to me that if he got to push first, which makes him NOT be in range that he'd still have to then take the test...

(And I was the aSeamus player in the scenario.. )

If he DID have to take the terrifying check and failed, would he then need to finish everything associated with that first? So he falls back, my wicked hopefully smashes his face in and the only things on the ends of the strings that Collodi pulls back are bits and pieces...

We played it that he got to push first(choose) and therefore NOT take the terrifying test as he was no longer in melee range and the FAQ wording feels like it supports that. (But, I would LOVE to be convinced otherwise. )

[Lungboy]

How does falling back work with Marionettes? Do they stop when they are 8" away from Collodi, or do they fall back the full amount but then pull to within 8" on their next activation?

[Ozz]

They are incapable of moving more than 8" from Collodi so they would have to stop i would say. Collodi can on the other hand move more than 8" from them ect

But for this question, following the words literally. It is simultaneous. So they both happen at the same time, this is a game, so that becomes impossible to apply, so the active player chooses what happens first. So i would be inclined to say the Marionette moves to within range of Collodi's control area (forgot what its called?) and then you take the Anathema terrifying check and run away if you fail, but having teleported, you would likely not suffer the disengaging strike, unless you were still in mele range with him.

[FoolWithTheFez]

But for this question, following the words literally. It is simultaneous. So they both happen at the same time, this is a game, so that becomes impossible to apply, so the active player chooses what happens first. So i would be inclined to say the Marionette moves to within range of Collodi's control area (forgot what its called?) and then you take the Anathema terrifying check and run away if you fail, but having teleported, you would likely not suffer the disengaging strike, unless you were still in mele range with him.

+1 to this. You make a terrifying check when you being an activation within range of a terrifying model. Immediately moving out that range doesn't mean you didn't meet the condition to make the check.

[Korrosion]

+1 to this. You make a terrifying check when you being an activation within range of a terrifying model. Immediately moving out that range doesn't mean you didn't meet the condition to make the check.

So the marionettes would both push to within 8" of Collodi(since I'm the active player I want that to happen first to avoid disengaging strikes), and then make a terrifying check?

[Ozz]

Yes.

But if you position it right, they would be out of mele with A Seamus at the time so if you fail it has no wicked strike against you