Hoffman Armor Tricks

[MrKittens]

Hey folks, really quick, hopefully no one minds a newer player starting up a bunch of threads:

I've been doing some research on Hoffman tricks, and remember coming across a post a while back that listed how to give him Armor +10. I didn't write down how, and have since lost where this was. The most I can think of giving him is +6, from a Guardian onto a Peacekeeper, and copying that. Was this trick an inapplicable rules-bending, or am I missing something here? Hopefully someone knows!

[Iron Skies]

We got up to +8 after realising that shield wall can't apply twice. This was done with two Guardians and a Peacekeeper. Guardian A does shield wall while Guardian B does Stalwart. However I believe it was ruled Hoffman can only Assimilate the armour value listed on the models card (IE 2 from a peacekeeper etc)

[MrKittens]

OK, so Hoffman can't Assimilate things that aren't on the model to begin with. What about Assimilating Shielded from the Guardian for +2 (you'd only need to hold on to a low Tomes to trigger it), then getting the extra +2 from the Guardian's Stalwart.

+4 is still pretty good! This has the added benefit of not disappearing quite so quickly, since Hoffman doesn't move (he's Pushed by Drawn to Metal!), and he doesn't attack (he Machine Puppets other things!). I suppose that if your opponent were obliging enough to attack the Guardian directly, you could take Shielded's +4, and add that to Stalwart's +2 for a really very impressive +6.

Does this work, or is my interpretation off for one reason or another?

[Turbodog]

IMO, if you're assimilating armor you're doing it wrong.

Hoffman has 2 abilities on his card that let him get armor...

(0) Assimilate

and

Protected by Machines

Assimilate was ruled (rightly so in my opinion) that it only allows you to copy talents and spells, not effects - so you can't get armor bonuses granted from things like stalwart or shield wall with this ability, but you can get the +2 armor written on the Peacekeeper's card...

Protected by Machines is a DIFFERENT ability that simply says "Hey, when the Hoffman gets hit, select a model within 3" and take it's armor." In this case, if the model within 3" is under a buff effect and has more armor, Hoffman should get it to. The ability says take armor not take a talent or spell.

So why are you wasting one of your (0) actions to copy armor - when you'll get some for free using Protected by Machines?

And yes, in this way you should be able to Stalwart one guardian next to a mechanical rider in power down stage that is in base contact with another guardian granting it shield wall to get a total of +1, +3, +2, +4 = 10 armor for Hoffman. (which honestly I can't see you ever needing - especailly for that points cost.)

[MrKittens]

Wow, +10 is pretty impressive, didn't think it was still legal.

However, you make a good point, so I suppose that, given how much hassle it would be to get that much rolling, I guess I'm not asking for quadruple-model setups that require multiple spellcasts to get going. I want to know a simple, straightforward way to keep a squishy, frontline caster alive against a player who regularly uses mature Nephilim, and has just purchased Nekima. Armor +2 isn't going to cut it, but Armor +6 might.

While I would love to be able to comfortably Assimilate more helpful things, if I think he's going to get charged in the next set of activations, I think I'm going to be happy knowing that he can get that +6. He's not going to be of much use dead.

[dunce002917]

Hmm.. having +10 Armor for Hoffman is good (broken good) but if it cost that much in ss, AP and model count, I think you are better off Machine Puppeting the Peacekeeper, the Pale Rider or the Warden.. and let your ss do the defense (wound prevention/healing).

The best defense is a strong ss powered offense.

my 2 ss.

[Turbodog]

I want to know a simple, straightforward way to keep a squishy, frontline caster alive against a player who regularly uses mature Nephilim, and has just purchased Nekima. Armor +2 isn't going to cut it, but Armor +6 might.

While I would love to be able to comfortably Assimilate more helpful things, if I think he's going to get charged in the next set of activations, I think I'm going to be happy knowing that he can get that +6. He's not going to be of much use dead.

Deep breath. Hoffman with Peacekeeper, Guardian (possibly Watcher) is a simple solution to your problem. Here's what you do.

First, let's consider point investment. If you're facing a Mature Nephilim and Nekima as Hoffman, then he bought them or he bought tots/young to grow. Note, if he plans on growing, he needs to kill his own models to do it. Hoffman's constructs don't yield blood counters. So let's put up his 23 point investment of a mature and nekima vs. your 16 point investment of peacekeeper + guardian.

First, realize you win engagement if he is baited to charge you. His models can fly, and you have arachnid/guardian pushes. So both are pretty moble. But if you stay more than 9" away from him and let him charge the following happens. He selects one of his models (no way to companion) charges you at up to 12 or 13 inches for one attack, then melee masters for one attack. Then it's your activation. If you have a peacekeeper activation, you can flurry that model. If you have a Hoffman activation, you can immediate reactivate the peacekeeper or just machine puppet the peacekeeper. Bottom line, as you likely know, you can't lose Hoffman or the Peacekeeper in those first two charge attacks.

Now, you're going to get hit by the attacks. Cheating to force a - flip is not a bad idea, but don't lose all your good cards doing it. The key is that you took turn 1 to set up the protect chain. Guardian casts protect on Hoffman. Hoffman (0) Assimilates Protect and casts Protect on Peacekeeper. Preferrably, Guardian then is using (0) Stalwart to grant +2 armor to the group. If you KNOW the charge is coming, Guardian could possibly (all) Shield Wall the group.

From the Nephilim side, they need to pick who to charge, and all are bad ideas. If they charge the Peacekeeper, here's what happens. (So long as no red joker...more on that later). Nephilim hits Peacekeeper doing severe damage (i'm doing a worst case here) of 6. Peacekeeper armor reduces it to 2 (remember he has +2 from stalwart going). Hoffman's protect takes the 2 wounds from the Peacekeeper. Guardian's protect takes the 2 wounds from Hoffman. Guardian takes 1 wound from Stalwart ability. Melee master attack occurs with same result. After charge result: Peacekeeper unharmed. Hoffman unharmed. Guardian has suffered 6 wounds and has 3 remaining. You've lost no models and he has a Nephilim in your melee range. You kill it as mentioned above. (Because with Cb 6 vs. Df 4 and him having used his good high cards to hit you/for damage you most times will).

Now it's Nekima. What does she do? She could charge the Guardian to try to finish it off. Hopefully you've saved a low tome to get his auto-shield wall trigger if she does. (perfect scenario) because they he does have +4 armor vs. her attacks and she'll need both to hit for severe to kill it. (notice how he has now hit you for 4 severe damages in a row...think how unlikely that is...and all you lost was your Guardian) If this happens, it's time for Hoffman/Peacekeeper to proceed to kill Nekima in like fashion. Most players will not see this as a good model trade (you lost guardian, they lost a mature and nekima).

What if Nekima goes after...anyone else? Well, essentially, the guardian still takes 2 wounds (due to stalwart) and is alive. Hoffman either keeps, or uses protect to take the damage from the hits on himself and he may use a soulstone to reduce those wounds as he takes them. He shouldn't have more than 4 or 5 wounds from this, leaving him with at least half his health. At this point, his two models are dead. All your models are alive (although the guardian barely and Hoffman is hurt). But with no threat you can take the next turn to (0) self repair the guardian (which also heals Hoffman 1) and then spend soulstones to heal Hoffman if you want.

Essentially, do not fear being charged. You have plenty of damage mitigation with Hoffman without needing +10 armor.

If the red joker comes up for damage, then someone is going to die. That's not just true for Hoffman's crew, but just about anyone. Not much you (or anyone) can do to prevent that.

Finally, since you wanted good ideas of things to Assimilate. Remember that Hoffman can (0) Assimilate Slow to Die from his Watcher. Then when he is reduced to 0 wds from damage he can use a soulstone as his slow to die action to heal keeping him alive. That even protects vs. Red Joker amounts of damage. So after turn 1 when you assimilated protect, in turn 2, 3, etc. You could always assimilate Slow to Die if you are worried about that. Myself, I almost always assimilate Immune to Influence (or Breach Psychosis) to give Hoffman similar WP resistance as the rest of his crew.

Good Luck!

PS - I never thought of Hoffman as a "squishy front line caster". He's got 10 wounds (Perdita is more squishy) and usually has 4 armor for "free" due to riding an armor 2 peacekeeper with a stalwart guardian around. His melee attack is (self-machine puppeted) Cb 6 and does 4/5/7 damage or more (with critical strike). Oh, and it ignores armor. He's actually closer to Lady J than Perdita, Sonnia, or Lucius as a front line tank.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Turbodog

[MrKittens]

Oh, wow! I didn't think the Protect chain was that powerful. Mr. Dog, you've changed my outlook from anxious worry to confidence. Hoffman has gone, in my mind, from a frail weakling with "PoliOH NOOO!" to a powerhouse with a toolbox, with "PoliOH YEEEAAAHH!"

Thank you, Mr. Dog. Your posts have been very helpful, and this new player very much appreciates your contributions.

Also, I will consider my life complete if I'm able to use the two above quotes in game. Feel free to use them, if you want!