New Malifaux Player, several guild crews seeking critique within!

[Forar]

So a friend tossed me some Malifaux info at the start of the year as part of a christmas present, and half a year later I'm pretty hooked. I've started collecting models, and despite having never painted anything at all (and lacking any particular artistic talent), I've begun building, priming, and even painting what I have, though the latter has been limited to one crew thus far.

Anyway, as a long time gamer and old school Magic player, the idea of synergies between a master and crew, and within a faction stood right out for me. Thus far I've bought and built 5 crews, 4 of which are Guild based, so I thought I'd present them to the community and get some input.

To date, I've snagged Perdita, Sonnia, Hoffman and Lady Justice as my Guild masters (box sets for the first three, Lady J as a solo blister), and have Ramos for Arcanists, with an intention to possibly snag 3 more Arcanists eventually when finances permit. I've also picked up a pile of individual minions, to give me some variety and versatility in my builds depending on my objectives and opponent (mostly Guild, Arcanists and Neverborn based on what my friends own at the moment).

So, without further delay, I present my Guild baseline builds for critique and suggestions. All are based on a 35 SS game, as that is what seems to be the general preference in my circle of friends.

Perdita (6ss)

Enslaved Nephlim

Francisco

Guild Austringer x 2

Santiago

Nino

Sonnia Criid (8ss)

Desperate Mercenary x 2

Witchling Stalker x 3

Samael Hopkins

Witchling Handler

*Work in progress, likely to replace Samael with something better suited)

Hoffman (6ss)

Mechanical Attendant

Watcher x 2

Guardian

Ryle

Peacekeeper

Lady Justice (7ss)

Scales of Justice

Watcher x 2

Guild Austringer x 2

Guardian

Executioner

The last one is definitely a work in progress, and Perdita is the only one with paint in place so far, but aside from a few models en route from Ebay sellers or in need of building, those are my general crews.

I also have an Exorcist, Hunter, Papa Loco, Judge and Rusty Alyce on hand for swapping about, and am pondering a Pale Rider and Wardens once they're available.

To date I've only gotten one test game in, 20ss Perdita versus The Dreamer, which I won after a hard fought battle against another new player (with another friend acting as ref to fill in rules gaps between us and keep things going). I know the builds will have to shift based on a number of factors, but have bought/primed based on a standard layout designed by reading posts on the forums, the Malifaux Wiki and a basic understanding of the rules that expands each time I read through the rulebook. I'm open to input based on the experiences of others, but please recognize that while my associates are skill gamers in their 30's (most of whom have a Warhammer background), we're generally avoiding outright unbalanced lists or tournament level play.

While I hope to be competitive and engaging to face, I'm not looking to outright break the game, though from what I've read here on the forums, it seems the Guild don't really have a 'filth' list, which I'm actually kind of glad for.

So, in general any input on crew creation, objectives, and suggestions are appreciated. Think back to when you started. Knowing what you know now, what do you wish you'd been told weeks or months or years ago?

Edited May 22, 2012 by Forar

[Guild Monkee]

It's good that you already understand that there is no catch all list for Malifaux and that you need to tailor it to your objectives, tat's the hard bit out of the way.

The Perdita list looks pretty solid. I'd certainly recommend picking up Abuela and look at swapping the 2 Austringers for her and either a watcher or a desperate merc plus a SS.

I'm curious on your thinking for the Sonnia crew, are the desperate mercs there purely to use Violation of Magic on? I've found them of little use as you probably don't want to commit some of your SS pool to keep them alive. Also remember that she can summon stalkers with VoM so you don't necessarily need to start with them. Hopkins doesn't have a great deal of synergy with the rest of the crew (despite coming in the box set), he's worth taking for his huge damage output but he will probably never see the end of a game. This crew would probably struggle with objectives like reconnoiter.

Hoffman crew is looking good, think you're definitely on the right lnes with him.

Lady J is probably the hardest to build a crew for as so many options work with her. I'd certainly recommend taking the peacekeeper as she can buff it really well. I'd also recommend the judge for the same reason. One thing I would say with Lady J is don't be afraid to be outnumbered, she can soon level things up. Things like Witchlings and Francisco can work really well with her too as they're relatively cheap and really benefit from her buffs nicely. Best thing to do with her is try different combinations and see what works for you.

[Forar]

Thank you for the feedback! I'm definitely hoping to build up enough of a collection to field an adjusted crew based on my opposition and schemes/strategies, but with only a single trial game under my belt, it's a lot of theory and little practical experience. I've read a number of battle reports on these forums, and have some friends eager to play, but limited free time has been interfering for ages now.

The Sonnia crew is fairly heavily built around using, producing and abusing the Stalkers, yes. It's sort of a work in progress, sort of a 'this looks like a fun mechanic to play around', between "kill my stuff and suffer" and "turn low life things into more guys for me". I've read on PMF about Hopkins not really fitting well (though apparently good, I do note he lacks synergy with my stated strat).

And shall do with Lady J. As effective as the pine box armour approach seems to be, having snagged a Judge Blister and having a friend already running LJ, I thought I'd take a different tack and use other defensive measures to get her into the fray, such as the Guardian. The Peacekeeper is a good idea as well, though I'll admit I'm a wee bit wary of the constructs with drawbacks outside of a crew like Hoffman who can minimize or neutralize them.

Anyway, I appreciate the input, you've certainly given me something to chew on!

[WindlordRyu]

One thing I would say with Lady J is don't be afraid to be outnumbered, she can soon level things up.

I find this to be true for all guild masters. Numbers isn't really our thing.

And I would also say that Sonia list lacks a bit of versatility if you turn the mercs into Stalkers. They're fairly slow and if Samael dies, which he will, your only "ranged" model is Sonnia. Personally I would take Death Marshals instead of him (Austringers works fine too), or replace one or two of your starting witchlings with DM's, or Austringers if you prefer those.

[von Clausewitz]

Something you should always keep in mind when building any crew is specific suit requirements the models have. As an example, I rarely take bot Santiago and Nino with Perdita because they all need masks to be maximally utilized. As a general rule I try to avoid hiring more than two models with similar suit dependencies.

[Ozz]

Not 100% on all the guild minions so not commenting on any other list bar Sonnias but to me, your list for her totals at 28 stones, meaning for a 35 game you are 7 stones short

[Requirement]

Only suggestion I have is to not rely so heavily on the Austringers. One is usually good... two is usually just lost stones. That's my opinion and I have had games that I bring two and they are fine. They really get better if paired with the Drill Sargent and/or Lucius. By themselves they are more of a psychological terror to the enemy as you will likely just be picking 1 wd off at a time.

With Sonnia, drop Samael. I want him to be awesome and there have been times that he has been... he is usually dead long before he gets the chance to do anything though. Dropping Sam gives you 15 stones to work with (Ozz was right, you were way short.) I would suggest a Witchling Handler when you get there. Grab one more shooty model (Nino would be decent, masks in an all tomes crew) and it's looking pretty decent.

Other than that though, for theoryfaux, you did a pretty good job.

[yes but no]

+1 for picking up the handler for Sonnia. I know the handler's stats for 7 SS are unimpressive but her ability to push your stalkers into the enemy lines allows for their anti magic aura to bung things up, also they explode :bomb:. Additionally with Sonnia I tend to run about 5-6 SS because she is my only soulstone using member of the crew (although she can be rather squishy). Finally I wouldn't worry too much about lists, IMO guilds greatest asset is their in faction flexibility. Try and break down each models strengths and weakness's and tailor your squad to the strategies/schemes/terrain and opponent.

Oh wait one more thing from a newer player still trying to get a handle on things, don't forget about the objectives of the game! I often get caught up in reciprocity and when all the blood and dust settles find my self thinking "wait, I was trying to achieve something here...".

[GoodPhule]

Oh wait one more thing from a newer player still trying to get a handle on things, don't forget about the objectives of the game! I often get caught up in reciprocity and when all the blood and dust settles find my self thinking "wait, I was trying to achieve something here...".

+1 to that and not just achieving your own objectives, stopping your opponent getting theirs works just as well when it comes to beating them!

[Forar]

Not 100% on all the guild minions so not commenting on any other list bar Sonnias but to me, your list for her totals at 28 stones, meaning for a 35 game you are 7 stones short

>.< You bring up an excellent point, I forgot to include the Witchling Handler!

And agreed, the objectives (anything for victory points) are definitely things I'm keeping in mind. In the aforementioned tester game, my objective was to kill The Dreamer, and his was to get to and hold a marker on the board. I sent my entire force over towards the marker, as it seemed to be a good way to both potentially deny him victory points, and to garner my own, assuming LCB (and thus, The Dreamer) would be coming over that way eventually anyway.

Thank you for all the input. I'll definitely be looking over the lists, and definitely plan to spend some time this week buried in books, PMF and the cards. It seems we may have some games coming up in the next weekend or two, and with your input and some work I hope to be as ready as possible for them.

Luckily they probably won't require quite as much number balancing, as we may have a very new (weeks of time reading/playing/etc) player participating, so it's suspected we'll stick to small/low soul stone encounters to help people get into the swing of things.

Edit: also, apparently people I play with are joining the forums. Oh no, my super secret crew builds will be known!

No peeking!

Edited May 22, 2012 by Forar

[nurglez]

Only thing I will say, is that its better to make your crew after you see what the mission is, as my friend's and I are used to playing warhammer 40k, this is a bit weird to us and still takes some getting used to (I tend to take a similar list no matter what the mission is, as I have a small cache of models).

I have had quite a bit of success taking the executioner with my perdita crew, adding some much needed close combat punch to my ranged punch is rather fun, and it scares off my usual opponent's terror tots

[Forar]

Oh, tweaking the crews to fit my opponent and objectives is definitely in mind, but thought I'd propose baseline crews that represented mechanics I find intriguing. I definitely intend to switch up who I play with based on those objectives, and then further tweak the playlist.

Just wanted to get a feel if any of the baseline ideas were far out there. Like "fyi, Sonnia with witchlings and handler looks good on paper, in reality it falls apart if someone looks at it funny" or something.

[nurglez]

I only feel comfortable discussing Perdita, as that is the only guild master I have experience using (6 games in the last 3 weeks). I have the starter box crew + her totem, Abuela and the executioner, and my usual opponent (lillith) and I play 35ss.

Santiago is a beast, if you get him to 4 wounds or less his shooting is actually better then perdita's (without the ability to use a ss ofc), and having a free walk, and then discarding a card for rapid fire pretty much destroys most things (I've taken to having an arguement between Francisco and Santiago at the begining of the game, which devolves into a fist fight which Francisco always wins:D ).

Nino is awesome, and if you are using the totem I would keep an obey handy for an extra shot from him, as he can pump out a ridiculous amount of firepower too. One game with his 2 actions I fired off 2 trigger happy's and a headshot, with my 4th shot I was going to cheat in a high crow for a second head shot, and decided against it, then flipped the red joker for damage + another severe, which killed the enemy (I decided against the headshot, but fate gave me one anyway).

I do intend to pick up the other crews at some point, but I'm sticking to what I know an love until I get better at the game (out of those 6 i've played recently I have lost the first 5, finally winning my last game woot).

I love Malifaux, and am trying to convince a few more player's in our group to start playing it. Good luck with your games and let us know how they turn out

[Forar]

Well, so far I've gotten in 4 games with friends, whom are broken into a local crew 3 other players (has recently become 4) and another with 1 other player (a long time friend I've played Magic with for over a decade, and known for half a decade more), who will hopefully be introducing his wife to the game.

Long story short; my pool of available opponents grows.

Locally, I've played once apiece against two people. First test game (a few weeks ago) was 20 soul stones and I took Perdita, totem, Papa Loco, Francisco and an Austringer against what turned out to be essentially The Dreamer box set. It wasn't easy, but we skipped Schemes to speed things up a bit, and just had individual strategies to run. I ended up murdering his entire force for a 4-0 victory, but it wasn't easy (he got an early shot in that took out Papa, who in turn took out the totem, so I basically fought it out at a 7 soulstone handicap).

Yesterday I played Sonnia Criid versus Rasputina on a Terraclips streets/buildings table against another friend, and in that 30 soul stone grand melee, ran Sonnia, 3 Witchlings, a Handler, 2 desperate mercs and an Austringer. Trying to investigate a creepy building off to the side led to a grand melee forming in the middle of town square, with Snowstorm eventually exploding under combined attacks, taking a Witchling and a Silent One out along with him. Another tough fight, final score 5-1 in my favour after routing much of my opponents force (which isn't necessarily a goal, but often works out to be a means to an end anyways).

And today I knocked out two quick 25 SS games out of town with my old school M:tG buddy, the first games he's ever played.

First one ended up being Perdita versus Rasputina, and in many ways became an unintentional rehash of the first game I played above, with him trying to take the objective and me moving my entire force into place to prevent that from working at all. I believe that crew was Perdita, Nino, a Watcher, an Austringer (I really love those guys, and they're highly effective even in just giving an enemy pause to working within my territory), and a Desperate Mercenary (might've been two). An Ice Golem and some Gamins attempted to advance together under cover of ice pillars, but Perdita and Nino blew through said cover, and then put gaping holes in the Golem after killing one Gamin, which together injured the others. It was mostly mopping up from there, but it was a great teaching/learning experience (there are still tons of things I need to look up or reference to be certain), and fun was had by all. 4-0 for me.

The second game of today was Sonnia versus Colette, and where the other games were pretty solid victories, this one was like boxing shadows. My opponent played intelligently and made few mistakes. Swapping happened all over the place, soul stones were generated en masse, reactivations occurred and bloody mechanical doves were *everywhere*. I practically dedicated a unit per turn to just keeping their numbers in check, and Cassandra was a bit of a melee terror. I knocked out a Performer early, but despite nearly putting Cass down a few times, it was my only non-dove kill that game, and he in turn whittled me down to 2 units (started with Sonnia, 2 Witchlings, Handler, Austringer and a Desperate Merc, by the time it was all over, I was down to Sonnia and the Austringer). Game ended at turn 6, and I barely won 6-5 (he only took one scheme and the 2 SS bonus for doing so, I took 2 schemes; bodyguard and hold out). If he'd moved a single unit into my deployment area, it would've been a tie.

I made some poor choices on soul stone usage that game, but mistakes were kept pretty minimal all around.

Overall, it's been a great experience. Love the game, and it has definitely replaced Magic as my expensive hobby for the forseeable future. Thinking I'll get some Terraclips of my own (perhaps one of the new sets they've been teasing, as I'd like to have a fully indoors option to set up) and need to give Hoffman, Lady J, Ramos and Kaeris some time on the table to see what else I can do with them, depending on my opponents and strat, of course.

Hopefully I'll get the out of town crew in for some games with the local crew (which would probably require 3 tables set up at least, at which point it's pretty much a full on tournament :-D ) in the coming weeks.