Feedback on my crew.

[digitalwino]

I just thought I'd throw up my general 35 stone crew list and see what people thought. Obviously I change it a little as is needed depending on my objective, but this is kinda the base idea I'm starting with: Seamus, Molly, Rotten Belle x2, Zombie Punk x2, and The Hanged. The biggest downside with this list, is that it only gives me a pool of 2. But I've found I tend to not use my stones much anyway and they just sit there....

Before that I was using Seamus, Molly, Rotten Belle x3, Rogue Necromancy and Necrotic Machine. I like the idea of the Rogue Necromancy, and I figured it's dmg output would be nice, but it's easy to hit, and tends to just get shot up and/or killed before it can really do anything. With no way of healing it, it tends to go down, and stay down.

The person I tend to play against the most, has been using Von Schill, Freikorps Librarian, and more recently, the Victoria's. Between the Slow to Die, and easy healing from the librarian, I've had a hell of a time Killing anything. Any time anything gets hurt, he just heals it all. So I figured The Hanged would be nice to deal with the healing (and do some dmg on the way to. His Ca isn't bad, and if I'm using on guys inside of Seamus's Trail of Fear aura, then it should be pretty easy to hit with. Then the other idea is once they have no healing, to use the Belle's to luring them into the whirling blades of the Punk's. That will also be useful against my other friend who plays the Ortega's, as he has a tendency to just sit back and blow me away with ranged.

Anyway, any thoughts?

[Sandwich]

I just thought I'd throw up my general 35 stone crew list and see what people thought. Obviously I change it a little as is needed depending on my objective, but this is kinda the base idea I'm starting with: Seamus, Molly, Rotten Belle x2, Zombie Punk x2, and The Hanged. The biggest downside with this list, is that it only gives me a pool of 2. But I've found I tend to not use my stones much anyway and they just sit there....

Before that I was using Seamus, Molly, Rotten Belle x3, Rogue Necromancy and Necrotic Machine. I like the idea of the Rogue Necromancy, and I figured it's dmg output would be nice, but it's easy to hit, and tends to just get shot up and/or killed before it can really do anything. With no way of healing it, it tends to go down, and stay down.

The person I tend to play against the most, has been using Von Schill, Freikorps Librarian, and more recently, the Victoria's. Between the Slow to Die, and easy healing from the librarian, I've had a hell of a time Killing anything. Any time anything gets hurt, he just heals it all. So I figured The Hanged would be nice to deal with the healing (and do some dmg on the way to. His Ca isn't bad, and if I'm using on guys inside of Seamus's Trail of Fear aura, then it should be pretty easy to hit with. Then the other idea is once they have no healing, to use the Belle's to luring them into the whirling blades of the Punk's. That will also be useful against my other friend who plays the Ortega's, as he has a tendency to just sit back and blow me away with ranged.

Anyway, any thoughts?

Don't worry about killing anything as Seamus, just play to your strength and counter what you can.

Like the serial killer you're playing, you've just got to capitalize on any mistakes people make.

Whereas Seamus kills unwitting women, however, you're facing a competant opponent with guns. So you need to really broaden your horizon in model selection to get you that edge you require.

While usually you won't have any idea who you're up against, there are a few lists that work well against a plethora of enemy crews.

Against Von Schill, I would lose the Hanged and pick up 4 SS cache and a Crooligan. The Mist is gonna help out big versus anything shooty your opponent brings. Trying to Terrify a Von Schill crew is pointless unless you bring out the Avatar of Dread because you just won't be doing enough to matter, as all of his models become something like Wp 9 with (0)Hard Ass. Unless you build up your crew right.

The Punk Zombies are another questionable choice, because you're taking heavy melee, low mobility versus moderate ranged, high mobility. If you can catch one of his models in your blender, yeah, they're gonna die. But again, you could be doing a lot more effectively with different models.

My criticism aside, try using as many Onryo as possible. They're like our hard counter to Von Schill.

They're Spirits, have decent movement, nice damage, can drastically wreck a single model once they die, deal damage versus Ranged Strikes, Ignore armor, can deal ranged damage and have (1)Mark of Jigoku which is their Ca of 5 versus Von Schill's cast of 3, his Freikorpsman's cast of 3, his Librarians cast of 6, his Specialist's cast of 3 and his sniper's cast of 3.

(1)Mark of Jigoku removes any immunity to WP duels and negates any bonuses that model receives, meaning no Stubborn and no (0)Hard Ass making a Terror Engine MUCH more effective.

If you take 1-2 Belles, Molly, 1-2 Onryo, a Crooligan and MAYBE a Convict Gunslinger, you should give yourself a significant combat advantage, at which point your main focus will be maintaining an even field of movement versus Von Schill (As the rest of his crew is fairly slow) which, with Molly and Seamus' +2 Wk to Belles, you shouldn't be off to a bad start.

In list form

Seamus: Brings a decent ranged Strike, he's more there to buff his Belles and tank as much damage as possible. Another main strength will be summoning in Dead Doxies or additional Rotten Belles to maintain speed.

Molly: Try to focus on buffing movement, but she can also bring in additional Crooligans if necessary. She can also Spell Steal anything from the Librarian, as most of the Librarian's Spells will be far more powerful when used against the Freikorps than for them. If an Onryo manages to hit Von Schill with (1)Mark of Jigoku, make NO hesitation to jump on him with Molly's (1)Terrible Secret, it'll remove his damage from the game and make even Rotten Belles an effective beatstick against him.

Onryo: Spirit, decent movement, powerful damage. All around a HARD counter to Von Schill's crew.

Crooligan: The Mist + Movement will make them invaluable if Von Schill has to capture points or take anything from you. The Crooligan's (1)The Mist will also function as an effective shield for your Onryo as your opponent will most likely focus them.

Rotten Belle: At first, focus on just moving them to objectives, after Onryo's get to work, use them to Lure the Freikorps apart and tear them up one by one.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Sandwich

[Calmdown]

Seamus likes playing vs living models, so you should capitalise on that. Don't try to make terror work against him, just write it off for a bad job and focus on your objectives instead of spending points on it.

Von Schill's crew generally want to shoot you, and be at range, and they want to play attrition games against your low damage. So do exactly what he doesn't want, and what Seamus does best; bring his models to you and then eat them. Put them out of range of the librarian... or eat the librarian. Don't attack anything you can't kill in a turn.

Your friends here are:

8 cache (or as close as possible. Von Schill cant have more than 4. This is a major disadvantage that you can take advantage of, you're 4 stones ahead in the stone war to start with. Stones are super important - learn to use them!)

Belles (luring stuff to you, obviously. Also look out for opportunities to pull Von Schill off of roofs etc, a lot of Von Schills die this way!)

Sybelle (for the Belle alpha-strike companion chain; not something I'd normally recommend but in this instance, it's nice. And she's not bad herself)

Bete Noir (gets all the way across the field without worrying about being shot!)

Night Terrors (can easily wander up to him unseen thanks to spirit and flight, and get free movements towards things that start shooting or casting spells, so you can tie up all his shooty stuff and advance... will also complete all your objective grabbing for you in record time)

Grave Spirit (attach it to whichever of your Belles/etc is in harm's way and watch it soak up lots of fire, and it can channel Seamus' spells for extra goodness)

Desperate Mercenaries (very good ranged, great for beating VS at his own game; if you keep them near Seamus, he has to give you cards+heals and a corpse counter to kill them)

Von Schill (remember you can hire him yourself, and you can take a cache of 8 stones to his 4, giving you a huge advantage in the VS-off as mentioned above)

McTavish+Nurse (again, gives you a really good shooty unit to shoot back with)

And naturally, Seamus' avatar. If you dont have it, get it. It's an auto-include in all Seamus lists. Having his avatar will totally change the game; you can basically sit your whole crew in hiding whilst building up to Seamus' avatar. If that avatar hits the table, people will have a problem; so it forces him to come and get you and turns the tables. Ranged crews dont like having to come and get you

[digitalwino]

Like I said, lately he started using the Vickys as his Master, and VS as a henchman. So he was still able to get a pool of 8. And He can quickly sling shot the Vickys out there, then pull them back real quick when they get hurt. It also didn't help that last game his objective was slaughter. With the exception of losing my Rogue Necromancy, I was able to keep my numbers up. But it doesn't matter, the more I summon, the more he has to kill and get points from. I find luring his people to me is pretty easy. Two belles can make a single model move a long way. And most models have less than 7 wp. Even if VS uses Hardass, it doesn't matter, that's only vs moral duels, not all wp duals.

Grave Spirit and Crooligan were things I was thinking of for def. The Crooligan is something that I can at least summon. All in all, I seem to do ok defensively, it the offense that I have problems with.

[Oshova]

It also didn't help that last game his objective was slaughter. With the exception of losing my Rogue Necromancy, I was able to keep my numbers up. But it doesn't matter, the more I summon, the more he has to kill and get points from.

When playing Slaughter, you want to minimise what you summon. This makes life hard for the other Resser masters, but Seamus relies less on summoning than the other 2.

[LordZombie]

That is the same 3 crews I have to deal with in my gaming group also. Luckily I have Seamus, McMourning, Nicodem, and Molly to try and mix it up some depending on who I have to face. I also am learning the benefit of making a crew after flipping for the stratergy. It is tough, and I am still trying to find a way to deal with Lady Justice, but practice is what it is all about, that and sticking to your objectives.

[Sandwich]

And naturally, Seamus' avatar. If you dont have it, get it. It's an auto-include in all Seamus lists. Having his avatar will totally change the game; you can basically sit your whole crew in hiding whilst building up to Seamus' avatar. If that avatar hits the table, people will have a problem; so it forces him to come and get you and turns the tables. Ranged crews dont like having to come and get you

Just going to quote this because the rest of your post is spot on, and I'm not trying to dissect what you say or disprove your opinion, I'd just rather get some insight on what you're saying.

That said, wouldn't you want to outright avoid using Seamus' Avatar versus a Von Schill crew?

I can see it being effective if you take a lot of Onryo or something to reduce the WP bonuses to his crew, but wouldn't you agree that versus a mobile shooty crew, your best bet would be to rely more heavily on other models doing most of the work and have Seamus just act as a sponge / mack daddy?

Again, more looking for insight into why you feel the Avatar of Dread would be auto-include versus Vicky / Von Schill, not trying to say you're wrong.