steamfitter Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Hi all, I've been playing malifaux at my local club for just over a month now (and loving it!) and im really looking to start a neverborn crew, I just love all the fluff for them, and thinking about going for Lilith (thus far I've been using Ramos). So, I was wondering if anyone could tell me a little about her play style, the type of crew she uses, etc etc... If it helps I mostly play my fiance who uses Lady J and is starting kirai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CN the Logos Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Lilith was the Master I started with, so I can provide some useful advice, hopefully. Lilith herself is probably the easiest to learn of the Neverborn masters; whereas Zoraida relies on the careful use of Obey on both friendly and enemy models along with occasional card manipulation and the ability to move rapidly at the cost of giving up her own abilities, Pandora wants to set up as many Willpower duels as possible to do damage and make her mobile, and the Dreamer now requires you to be aware of more than just the abilities required to slingshot him into play, Lilith likes to hit things. She has Fast so that she can get into melee quicker or make another attack if she's already in it, her Combat and Defense stats are both very high, and that on every attack with the sword means you'll get to cheat a lot. However, she's not just about hitting things (and this is good for you; from what I've heard, Lady Justice is slightly better in melee). Lilith has a few support abilities, some of which I find useful, some less so. Master of Malifaux lets her move through most terrain at her normal speed (6" walk, 9" charge: the lady is fast) and ignore terrain and line of sight for attacking, casting spells, etc... It won't come up often, but you can attack things right through walls. What will come up more often is the ability to cast Transposition on things. Switching the positions of any two models (two of your own, two of your opponent's, one of yours and one of hers, whatever you like) is awesome. Keep in mind that Lilith can't cast it on herself, because it requires a resist duel, but her totem can cast it on her. Illusionary Forest is also very useful, allowing you to either slow opponents down or block lines of sight without inconveniencing yourself. Her (0) actions, Drain Blood and Brood Mother, are dependent on having other nephilim around and living/undead to drain blood from if needed. My primary opponent, my girlfriend, plays Rasputina, and only two, maybe three of her models are living, so I don't see much use there. You may find them more helpful. With the exception of her (0) actions, Lilith doesn't do anything that requires nephilim to support her, so you can pretty much take whatever you like from the Neverborn faction. That said, Terror Tots make good objective grabbers and are surprisingly lethal, and both Young and Mature Nephillim are good at killing things. The Twins (Lelu and Lilitu) are good too. Bear in mind that you have to take at least one of each or they start bleeding out at the end of the first turn, so they're at least a 14SS investment, but they're good. I've never played with Waldgeists, but I've heard good things, and with the upcoming release of Lilith's avatar, they may find a place in more crews. I prefer the extra card from Primordial Magic over the abilities of the Cherub. Draw eight, discard one is so much better than draw six, I find myself missing it when I'm playing other masters. Likewise, if you only have room for one 10SS model in your crew, I find Von Schill is almost always better than the Mature Nephil. The Mature does more damage, but Von Badass is vastly more survivable, potentially faster, has a good ranged weapon, can use soulstones, and is a smaller target. Don't get me wrong, there are schemes where I like having the option to take the Mature Nephil, but he's not the best pick for all situations. Hope this helps you get started. Feel free to ask if you have any more specific questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Lilith was the Master I started with, so I can provide some useful advice, hopefully. Lilith herself is probably the easiest to learn of the Neverborn masters; whereas Zoraida relies on the careful use of Obey on both friendly and enemy models along with occasional card manipulation and the ability to move rapidly at the cost of giving up her own abilities, Pandora wants to set up as many Willpower duels as possible to do damage and make her mobile, and the Dreamer now requires you to be aware of more than just the abilities required to slingshot him into play, Lilith likes to hit things. She has Fast so that she can get into melee quicker or make another attack if she's already in it, her Combat and Defense stats are both very high, and that on every attack with the sword means you'll get to cheat a lot. However, she's not just about hitting things (and this is good for you; from what I've heard, Lady Justice is slightly better in melee). Lilith has a few support abilities, some of which I find useful, some less so. Master of Malifaux lets her move through most terrain at her normal speed (6" walk, 9" charge: the lady is fast) and ignore terrain and line of sight for attacking, casting spells, etc... It won't come up often, but you can attack things right through walls. What will come up more often is the ability to cast Transposition on things. Switching the positions of any two models (two of your own, two of your opponent's, one of yours and one of hers, whatever you like) is awesome. Keep in mind that Lilith can't cast it on herself, because it requires a resist duel, but her totem can cast it on her. Illusionary Forest is also very useful, allowing you to either slow opponents down or block lines of sight without inconveniencing yourself. Her (0) actions, Drain Blood and Brood Mother, are dependent on having other nephilim around and living/undead to drain blood from if needed. My primary opponent, my girlfriend, plays Rasputina, and only two, maybe three of her models are living, so I don't see much use there. You may find them more helpful. With the exception of her (0) actions, Lilith doesn't do anything that requires nephilim to support her, so you can pretty much take whatever you like from the Neverborn faction. That said, Terror Tots make good objective grabbers and are surprisingly lethal, and both Young and Mature Nephillim are good at killing things. The Twins (Lelu and Lilitu) are good too. Bear in mind that you have to take at least one of each or they start bleeding out at the end of the first turn, so they're at least a 14SS investment, but they're good. I've never played with Waldgeists, but I've heard good things, and with the upcoming release of Lilith's avatar, they may find a place in more crews. I prefer the extra card from Primordial Magic over the abilities of the Cherub. Draw eight, discard one is so much better than draw six, I find myself missing it when I'm playing other masters. Likewise, if you only have room for one 10SS model in your crew, I find Von Schill is almost always better than the Mature Nephil. The Mature does more damage, but Von Badass is vastly more survivable, potentially faster, has a good ranged weapon, can use soulstones, and is a smaller target. Don't get me wrong, there are schemes where I like having the option to take the Mature Nephil, but he's not the best pick for all situations. Hope this helps you get started. Feel free to ask if you have any more specific questions. +1 to everthing CN has said, especially RE the Primordial Magic Totem. If you combine this with Liliths Greatsword trigger shes actually pretty efficient with her deck! I would also point out the Black Blood Shaman, which I always enjoy using (especially with a couple of desperate mercs- so many blood counters!!!) And as long as you have the soulstones to back him up, von schill/von badass with her is fantastic. Give him fast with a black blood shaman and watch him take out half a crew while lilith watches, then proceeding to annihilate the other half! Lilith is as blunt as a spade to play woth in many respects but is SO much fun. Get her and Zoraida and between their 2 different play styles you will never get bored of being a neverborn player! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CN the Logos Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 +1 to everthing CN has said, especially RE the Primordial Magic Totem. If you combine this with Liliths Greatsword trigger shes actually pretty efficient with her deck! I would also point out the Black Blood Shaman, which I always enjoy using (especially with a couple of desperate mercs- so many blood counters!!!) And as long as you have the soulstones to back him up, von schill/von badass with her is fantastic. Give him fast with a black blood shaman and watch him take out half a crew while lilith watches, then proceeding to annihilate the other half! Lilith is as blunt as a spade to play woth in many respects but is SO much fun. Get her and Zoraida and between their 2 different play styles you will never get bored of being a neverborn player! I forgot to mention Black Blood Shaman. I like it, but it almost never sees play with me because I don't get to Drain Blood from living or undead targets often, and I'm not playing a grow list to get blood counters from my own expendable minions (I don't have Nekima or the Desperate Mercenaries for it). Since the OP is likely to see a lot of games versus Lady Justice, it may work better for him. On the other hand, Kirai is all spirits all the time, so it may not be as useful in that case. In any case, it might work really well, but if I had to start buying Lilith's crew all over again, my purchases would be, in order of priority: the boxset, a pack of Young Nephilim, Primordial Magic, at least one of each twin, Von Schill (or his boxset if you think you might want to run Freikorps later), then other stuff. And as someone who picked up Z after Lilith, I can affirm that moving from one to the other is pretty easy and provides a nice contrast in playstyles, if you ever find yourself interested in the witch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zwergenkrieger Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 It´s a great read her, thanks to all of you! One question that immediately sprang to mind: Is Transposition affected by the Immune to Influence rule? I.e. may I cast it to move a Teddy for example? I can hardly await the release of Lilliths new sculpt, it looks so sexy! ZK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Transposition causes a Wp Duel and the wording on the spell does not state that it counts as an exception for Immune to influence, so Immune to Influence models cannot be transpositionned, even if it's part of your crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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