New to the game, and Gremlins! :)

[Archnomad]

Hey, first post on the forum so go easy.

A bunch of my friends and I have recently decided to start up Malifaux. I'm pretty hooked on Gremlins, loving the goofy aesthetic and semi controlly playstyle they seem to have. However, I've been doing a lot of homework with the faction, and well, I'm stumped. I know I want to play Som'er, and I definitely want to play with a Pigapult. Mosquitoes are obviously really good. But beyond that, I'm stumped. Bayou Gremlins are obviously good (2ss and significant, with a nice range). But yeah, what should I get to start me out with?

Thanks!

P.s. I'm looking for a competitive selection of models, cause all my friends are going for the throat, as it were.

[Charmant]

First of all I'm always very glad to see someone picking up Gremlins as it's the greatest faction for the coolest guys!

This is what I'd recommend for a starter:

Born on the Bayou box, Som'er and 4 gremlins, warpig is a bonus

Avatar Som'er as he is a nice avatar, not necessary if you don't have the money though

Ophelia and Rami. Possibly buy the Ophelia box if you like the other guys, but Ophelia and Rami are the best of the bunch.

Another blister of Gremlins as you'll need more than four. Eventually you might even want a second additional blister.

Hog whisperer and piglet, plus one or two blisters of piglets. The hog whisperer is nice for tables with lots of terrain as he gives the piglets flying, and to give aSom'er reactivate. Plus it's always nice to have more folks who can cast Sooey! in a pig list. I went with just one blister of piglets for a while but kept finding myself proxying additional ones, don't think I'll need more than seven except very occationally though.

A blister of slop haulers is nice as well, if you're running a gunline list and want to be able to heal the fellers up.

Mosquitoes you already know you have to get, four of them.

If you really really want to use the pigapult to bomb the hell out of your opponent and not just launch Gremlins up the field - bombing is useful against some crews - you might want to get the taxidermist for shooting stuffed piglets. +1dg & is really good, but I usually just use the pigapult to shoot gremlins up to get schemes and strategies done. The taxidermist is a situational model, but he looks so cool I just have to use him to and fro - if nothing else because my friends demand it!

If you decide to get a taxidermist you never need more than 5 stuffed piglets - you won't summon that many, the ones you have will probably blow up pretty fast, and if there are more than five stuffed ones on the field at the start of any - any - models activation they go boom.

Unfortunately the Gremlins with Som'er are one of the most modelcount dependent crew, as you usually really want to use get your bro, parasite, bacon etc quite a lot to replace those expendable gremlins, or summon piglets. But it's a truly amazing crew and I wouldn't exchange it for anything (even though I've been dibbling a little with Nicodem recently..)

TL;DR:

Som'er Box

Ophelia & Rami

Gremlins-blister

Hog whisperer

1-2 piglet blister(s)

4xmosquitoes

Slop hauler

(Taxidermist)

(Avatar Som'er)

Edited March 12, 2012 by Charmant

[Charmant]

Realized that is a long shopping list, and while you will need a lot of models eventually the most important thing is the mosquitoes and a blister of gremlins. Second after that is piglets. Then you will probably have a feel for where you want to be headed!

[Archnomad]

Well I just totalled up...

Som'er (new figure)

2x4 Bayou Gremlins

Hog Whisperer + Piglet

Piglet Blister

Pigapult

2 Slop Haulers

4 Giant Mosquitoes

Which, out of my £100 budget is a whopping £93.60. Meaning I can afford a Fate Deck and I'm sorted. Problem is it doesn't seem like very much for £100. I realise that's probably because I'm spending £30 on 4ss. But the Pigapult seems to be the Gremlin's ace in the hole when it comes to certain strategies. Dunno, I kinda dont want to start without it. I'm also jealous of my friends' crews costing them about £50 tops. >_>

For the record, this is the 35ss list I was thinking about starting with:

Som'er

3ss Cache 3

Giant Mosquitoe 2

6 Bayou Gremlins 12

Slop Hauler 4

Malifaux Rat 2

Hog Whisperer 5

Piglet 3

Pigapult 4

35ss

*I realise that I will build my list based on the strategy and opponent, but I want to get a kind of building block list that I can swap things out of based on the opponent. This seems to be a fairly good all round list, although I could be wrong.

[Omenbringer]

Have you looked at the Pull My Finger wiki's? They answer a lot of these questions.

Of course my own preference is for Balanced Lists that feature the "Pig Boomerang" tactic and then transition to a Gunline or Alpha Stank.

[DireTrollJake]

Just an FYI, the pugapult really doesn't get much time for shining when you don't bring the taxidermist and stuffed pigs. It's a sick model and awesome rules, but without them, it's just there for laughs. I'd cut it (saving you a ton of money for now on your budget) and add another hauler or piglet+1SS

[Archnomad]

Well, I'm not that interested in Ophelia to be honest. So, pigs and bayous ho!

Looking at the faction, I have a question. How do I do significant damage (without the Kin models) with any degree of reliability? Cause it looks like you have to rely on the Slops quite a bit to hit stuff. I get we can do objectives really well, but how do we kill models? Dumb Luck?

And yeah like I said Omen, done a lot of homework on this game, read I think about every page on that wiki

[Omenbringer]

Looking at the faction, I have a question. How do I do significant damage (without the Kin models) with any degree of reliability? Cause it looks like you have to rely on the Slops quite a bit to hit stuff. I get we can do objectives really well, but how do we kill models? Dumb Luck?

And yeah like I said Omen, done a lot of homework on this game, read I think about every page on that wiki

Gremlins aren't really about lots of damage in one go, but lots of damage over several. This is the reason why the Pigs are used in squadrons and the Gremlins are used in Gunlines. Think about it this way a gunline of only 6 Gremlins can generate 18 ranged strikes, while a Pig Squadron of 4-5 piglets can generate 12 to 15 melee strikes. Though a lot of new players think the Slop Hauler is mandatory he really isn't except to heal the Lacroixs (Bayou's should be considered disposable for the most part). The only real mandatory models are the Skeeters (useful for extending Some'rs AP) and a Hog Whisperer (in a Pig heavy list mainly).

The rest of the Gremlin models (aside from the Lacroixs) are really niche (though the Pigapult is the current rage). Taxidermists are nice also (though dont rely on them summoning Stuffed Piglets in game consistantly) especially when trying to kill high defense models (the jury is still out but the bacon bombing run has the potential to permanently kill some of the more difficult masters in the game like Hamelin and Leveticus without allowing them to use their tricks to come back).

Glad you liked the Wiki, that was the product of a lot of work by a lot of people (For my part I still need to add a lot more to the gremlins, stupid work obligations).

Edited March 13, 2012 by Omenbringer

[Archnomad]

Gremlins aren't really about lots of damage in one go, but lots of damage over several. This is the reason why the Pigs are used in squadrons and the Gremlins are used in Gunlines. Think about it this way a gunline of only 6 Gremlins can generate 18 ranged strikes, while a Pig Squadron of 4-5 piglets can generate 12 to 15 melee strikes. Though a lot of new players think the Slop Hauler is mandatory he really isn't except to heal the Lacroixs (Bayou's should be considered disposable for the most part). The only real mandatory models are the Skeeters (useful for extending Some'rs AP) and a Hog Whisperer (in a Pig heavy list mainly).

The rest of the Gremlin models (aside from the Lacroixs) are really niche (though the Pigapult is the current rage). Taxidermists are nice also (though dont rely on them summoning Stuffed Piglets in game consistantly) especially when trying to kill high defense models (the jury is still out but the bacon bombing run has the potential to permanently kill some of the more difficult masters in the game like Hamelin and Leveticus without allowing them to use their tricks to come back).

Glad you liked the Wiki, that was the product of a lot of work by a lot of people (For my part I still need to add a lot more to the gremlins, stupid work obligations).

Ok cool. My thought process for the above list was to bring Bayous and make some Piglets out of them, cause it's a gain in SS and Control Cards. I'm just trying to get a good bunch of all-round models just now. Not sure if I want a Pigapult or not.

*Well, I definitely want a Pigapult, but it's a lot of money for a 4ss model straight off the bat. And looking at Gremlins it seems that to run a viable "gunline" you really need to bring Ophelia, just so you don't kill all your own stuff.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Archnomad

[von Clausewitz]

My advice is to listen to Omenbringer's advice. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to gremlins. You might also search for posts by Spiku and Dumb Luck as they have also spent a considerable amount of time playing the little green men. I'm sure you won't be disappointed with gremlins. I never warmed up to them (they're just not my style), but the people who play them tend to be diehard fans. Anyway, Welcome to Malifaux!

[Omenbringer]

Ophelia makes a gun line run better but I was running Gunlines plenty well before and after she was released (she is not auto-include by any means with Some'r because of her SS cost and SS addiction, if you want to include her then it is best to omit Some'r and just run her as the Master).

Additionally, converting Bayou's to Piglets is usually not worth the effort. Though Some'r is sometimes thought of as a summoning factory he does really strugle to maintain it turn after turn, trying to convert Bayou's in to Piglets just adds to the stress (and generally wastes effort that could be applied in other areas). If you are looking to maximize value, then a Taxidermist is the way to go since he insures the dropping of Corpse counters (for healing Piggies) and can in essence recycle everything (once again though dont count on him being able to maintain this turn after turn).

---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------

My advice is to listen to Omenbringer's advice. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to gremlins. You might also search for posts by Spiku and Dumb Luck as they have also spent a considerable amount of time playing the little green men. I'm sure you won't be disappointed with gremlins. I never warmed up to them (they're just not my style), but the people who play them tend to be diehard fans. Anyway, Welcome to Malifaux!

Appreciate the compliment Von Clausewitz.

I would agree that Spiku and Dumb Luck (and also Lalo) are indeed great sources of information since they play their gremlins a lot different than I do and can provide a different take on them.

[Charmant]

Don't have my cards with me ATM, but corpse counters can only be used to heal the warping, right? Just about your note on corpse counters and the taxidermist.

Ophelia is quite far from an auto-include, I like to bring her (and Rami) if I'm gonna be playing a strategy/scheme or against an opponent I might need to snipe off ASAP. Last week I met a Lady J list bringing Lucius, this made The Lady able to lay the pain on Som'er first turn. Fortunately I had brought Ophelia and Rami, Lady J was hiding behind a fence but with paired, use soulstone, hunter, gremlin sights and a bit of card luck I got her down to three WD and two SS remaining so Som'er survived and I could blast her to death by shooting my own bayous, cheating severe. (Slop haulers are nice for this, having blasts on moderate as well as severe)

[Dumb Luck]

Just an FYI, the pugapult really doesn't get much time for shining when you don't bring the taxidermist and stuffed pigs. It's a sick model and awesome rules, but without them, it's just there for laughs. I'd cut it (saving you a ton of money for now on your budget) and add another hauler or piglet+1SS

Really? Have you trying putting Pere in it? Or Ophelia? Or using it to claim objectives?

It has plenty of uses outside of Pigs.

Also guys, all this bigging me up will go right to my ego. You know that, right?

Edited March 13, 2012 by Dumb Luck

[Omenbringer]

Don't have my cards with me ATM, but corpse counters can only be used to heal the warping, right? Just about your note on corpse counters and the taxidermist.

Yep (should have specified that) but without a Taxidermist in the mix you have to rely on your opponent using a model with Graverobber so the counters will drop. Also when running a Warpig I generally bring a Taxidermist because when it dies I'll have the potential to pull 3 Stuffed Pigs from his carcass.

Ophelia is quite far from an auto-include, I like to bring her (and Rami) if I'm gonna be playing a strategy/scheme or against an opponent I might need to snipe off ASAP. Last week I met a Lady J list bringing Lucius, this made The Lady able to lay the pain on Som'er first turn. Fortunately I had brought Ophelia and Rami, Lady J was hiding behind a fence but with paired, use soulstone, hunter, gremlin sights and a bit of card luck I got her down to three WD and two SS remaining so Som'er survived and I could blast her to death by shooting my own bayous, cheating severe. (Slop haulers are nice for this, having blasts on moderate as well as severe)

This is pretty much what I said above and also shows why Ophelia (and the Lacroix's) isn't auto-include with Some'r. Their high SS costs limits the staple models that really make Some'r shine. Considering you also hired a Slop Hauler (for a total hiring cost of 18 without consideration of a SS cache for Ophelia) you only had 12 SS left to hire the Pigs, Bayous and Skeeters.

As for your method of killing Lady Justice, congratulations you must have been flipping pretty well (and your opponent pretty badly on Damage Prevention). Killing her with Blast Templates like this (even with only 3 Wd's and 2 SS for Damage Prevention flips) is not a very typical result (not that it cant happen).

Here is why I say this, any model close enough to get her with a single template (50mm being approximately 1.97") is also in her melee range of 2 and forces a randomization of the target between her and the Bayou Gremlin in melee range (adding +1 to the final targets Df stat with no help from Ophelia's Aim High because the initial target was Ht 1). To pull this off after the Bayou Gremlin was finally deteremined to be the target, you'd still have to beat its Df of 5 (+1 for being in melee with Lady Justice) by 6+ with a CB of 4 to insure the ability to cheat the damage. Even with only flipping/cheating an Ace for the defending Bayou Gremlin, a Bayou Gremlin or Slop Hauler trying this would need a 9 or higher to insure the ability to cheat the damage to severe and generate the blast to hit her. Doing this at least twice to generate 4 Wds (hoping she flips either the Black Joker or Weak on the Damage prevention flip) would be difficult to achieve (more so with Some'rs Ill Fated limiting your Control Hand). 2 counters might make this a bit easier because you could possibly avoid the randomization from firing into melee, but you would still need to beat the targets Df by 6+ to be able to cheat to severe. This trick is definately something to keep in mind but definately not counted upon to finish the job (because of how resource intensive it is going to be).

Edited March 14, 2012 by Omenbringer

[Charmant]

This is pretty much what I said above and also shows why Ophelia (and the Lacroix's) isn't auto-include with Some'r. Their high SS costs limits the staple models that really make Some'r shine. Considering you also hired a Slop Hauler (for a total hiring cost of 18 without consideration of a SS cache for Ophelia) you only had 12 SS left to hire the Pigs, Bayous and Skeeters.

As for your method of killing Lady Justice, congratulations you must have been flipping pretty well (and your opponent pretty badly on Damage Prevention). Killing her with Blast Templates like this (even with only 3 Wd's and 2 SS for Damage Prevention flips) is not a very typical result (not that it cant happen).

Here is why I say this, any model close enough to get her with a single template (50mm being approximately 1.97") is also in her melee range of 2 and forces a randomization of the target between her and the Bayou Gremlin in melee range (adding +1 to the final targets Df stat with no help from Ophelia's Aim High because the initial target was Ht 1). To pull this off after the Bayou Gremlin was finally deteremined to be the target, you'd still have to beat its Df of 5 (+1 for being in melee with Lady Justice) by 6+ with a CB of 4 to insure the ability to cheat the damage. Even with only flipping/cheating an Ace for the defending Bayou Gremlin, a Bayou Gremlin or Slop Hauler trying this would need a 9 or higher to insure the ability to cheat the damage to severe and generate the blast to hit her. Doing this at least twice to generate 4 Wds (hoping she flips either the Black Joker or Weak on the Damage prevention flip) would be difficult to achieve (more so with Some'rs Ill Fated limiting your Control Hand). 2 counters might make this a bit easier because you could possibly avoid the randomization from firing into melee, but you would still need to beat the targets Df by 6+ to be able to cheat to severe. This trick is definately something to keep in mind but definately not counted upon to finish the job (because of how resource intensive it is going to be).

Yup, they're very resource intense as you really want SS for Ophelia as well, bumping her tag up by 4-5 more. This anecdote is very luck based as I believe I mentioned in my previous post, and was an example of when she can be good, such as defending from a fast Lady Justice being in your deployment zone, killing your dudes round 1. I had the slop hauler in there because I like a means of healing my bayous apart from take a swig, but you're right in that I didn't have many gremlins at all, just something like three (35ss game).

If I could've shot Lady directly I would've, but Ophelia was a bit away and Som'er was engaged so I could have hit him as well. But, it was just an anecdote to give an example of when Ophelia can be nice to have

[DireTrollJake]

Really? Have you trying putting Pere in it? Or Ophelia? Or using it to claim objectives?

It has plenty of uses outside of Pigs.

Also guys, all this bigging me up will go right to my ego. You know that, right?

His list does not bring Pierre or Ophelia. So bringing it for 4 points just as a gamble for board speed is not something I'd recommend a new player do, especially one on a budget.