Pig Boomerang

[Spiku]

It was 8", and 12" on the following turn when I was playing the game; I simply used the wrong values when discussing it subsequently because I was just recalling the memorised movement values in isolation. My sincerest for confusion. Equally I, of course, didn't use any truffles or other push methods. I would draw your attention to your use of interested to hear, given it was clearly either a mistake in game, or in writing here

Much like in a rules thread I just said you can soulstone before cheating by accident, despite quoting the rule that says you can't, and telling the person in chat that you can't =)

Edited February 16, 2012 by Spiku

[Omenbringer]

Nothing personal man, I figured it was either a mistake in typing or in game (a lot of players forget the fine print of treasure hunt) of course there is always the possibility that someone could stumble on a way to do it (so figured I'd ask).

With that said, I was actually wondering if you had used another Bayou Gremlin to pick up the counter (1 Ap Interact) then hand it over to another Bayou Gremlin using another 1 AP interact (which would allow that Bayou Gremlin his full compliment of Walk Actions). Though I have rarely seen this used in games, Gremlins (and Collodi) should have a very simple time forming the chain, and whisking the treasure all the way back to the deployment zone in one go.

[Spiku]

Ah, I thought in my PM to you I had indicated that I only had one Bayou Gremlin left to activate that round when I pig laddered up to the treasure, it must have been when I was discussing with Ratty what the Kirai player could have done that game.

I quite like just eating the gremlin holding it so I get cards and another Gremlin or Bayou Gremlin

[Omenbringer]

There was a lot of text in that PM.

Though eating the Gremlin might give you Control Cards (if within range of a model that has Survival of the Fittest), the resulting drop slows the carriage of the Treasure Counter due to the next model now needing to be in B2B with the counter and use a (1) Interact action to pick it back up. It also exposes the counter to theft when it is just laying on the ground.

Using three Bayou Gremlins in a chain efficiently moves that treasure counter from the center of the board to the very back of your deployment zone in one turn without risking the enemy swooping in and either running off with it or picking it up with something difficult to kill (unless they kill the Bayou Gremlin carrying it first).

Progression example (assumes Standard Deployment Zones) after using Hog Whisperer, Skeeter, 3 Pig Ladders to position the Bayou's (5 total activations, 6 if Some'r also goes before the run, and 7 if the 2nd Skeeter goes before the run):

1. Bayou 1 picks it up with (1) Interact
   
2. Walks 4" into B2B with Bayou 2
   
3. Uses Reckless to passes it to Bayou 2 via (1) Interact
   
4. Bayou 2 Walks 8"
   
5. Uses Reckless and passes it to Bayou 3 via (1) Interact
   
6. Bayou 3 Walks twice for 8"
   
7. Uses Reckless to Walk again for 4"

In all, the three Bayou's could cover approximately 24" of the board without dropping the Counter. It is difficult (but not imposible) to counter.

[Spiku]

That kind of depends: in that game I played, my Bayou had used his reckless move to make it into base contact where Som'er was chilling out at the back, then mozzified. I expressly activated that Bayou Gremlin last after wasting turns and was not in a pre-built set up as I had been churning through my Gremlins on turn 1 as well as leap frogging on them. On turn 2 it was a requirement I move the Bayou Gremlin back, and with the movement I had I was not in base contact with anyone (I had to walk around terrain, rather than take a direct route); my 3rd action was to move into base contact with Som'er and Mosquitoe 1, because I couldn't move so I could interact with anyone. By eating him, I get to interact with the counter quicker than waiting for another turn, got 2 cards, and could have looked to having my Hog Whisperer (8Wd max) or Som'er =3

I agree with your premise entirely, of course. Ladders of all sorts are what gremlins are good at: pig ladder there, bayou ladder back; but I would warn the chap who is new to this, that while an ideal situation is presented there, just like you can get to the treasure and back very quickly, so can many of your opponents. Sometimes you will want to get your treasure carrier as far as possible in one activation (as I did in my recent game), sometimes you will need to do some combat activations (not likely as pig list), and so there are times where you want to move it as far as possible in a single activation.

Equally, while still on the subject of Treasure; Slop Hauler holding the counter. I personally don't; despite the extra Wd and Wp he has over a Bayou, and can heal; you'll never be walking him away if you are healing; I'll take Terrify 11 over the +1 health, and know that the slop hauler healing anyway might as well heal the Bayou instead of himself when attacked. Normal Som'er sits at the back -anyway-, and the Hog Whisperer also has more health flatly

[Omenbringer]

Opponents may be able to get there quickly but they cant pick it up until one of your models has performed the interact action to pick it up. If your opponent does rocket a model forward to guard or base block the treassure counter then moving a Slop Hauler along the Pig Ladder can easily clear a path for the Bayou to move in and grab it (this is one of the few times I always bring a Slop Hauler).

Survival of the Fittest can be a neat thing for sure (it allows you to pad your control hand during the turn and prior to discarding) but it usually hampers my movement and action plans to much to warrant using my models to trigger it (another note for new players perusing this thread, though Some'r can have more than 5 Control Cards during a turn due to Survival of the Fittest, he still has to discard back down to his maximum hand size of 5 during the discard phase. This is very commonly miss played).

[Spiku]

That Slop Hauler is such fun for moving models off of things like Wagon, Treasure, Claim Jump etc. I would also recommend Avatar Som'er for this role; harder to cast, but far bigger range and 2 Wd instead of Dg. A.Som'er can be truffled AND Sooey'd; You could companion Som'er to a few mosquitoes to get him up field, pulling other piglets into position for the ladder, move him to the counter in question and Swamp Gas people away. All match up dependant of course, in a best case scenario you have been able to trigger your B.Y.O.G etc, but it's not often worth talking about when things go perfectly right, because Fate.

The comment re: enemies only being able to pick up the treasure after you have at least once is well worth mentioning; the reasons I talk about conservative use of activations/highest distance in some situations is of course because once you have picked it up you are holding it with a model that is very squishy. One of the unfortunate parts of our ladders is things like Pandora making great use of its positioning (boo!), Zoraida's ability to get the LoS off quite easily and companion (card reliant), Dreamer being able to happily interrupt.

The situations where you need conservation of momentum, rather than when you are out activate happying someone can occur as outlined in my previous post,and also as the scenario dictates as to whether you are grabbing and running in 1st turn, 2nd turn initiative, or waiting till turn 6 so that the enemy cannot interact with it in the normal turn limit scope.

If you are including Avatar Som'er in your crew, mosquitoes are still so useful for sooey, but each one costs throwing away two cards when you manifest. I usually allow most of my mosquitoes to go up field and use Gremlin's Luck to near kill them at the cost of enemy cards, manifest; throwing away two cards to keep one Mosquitoe who then kills off some Bayou Gremlins for new mosquitoes and cards. It will always depend on your situation, but things worth being aware of

[Omenbringer]

The comment re: enemies only being able to pick up the treasure after you have at least once is well worth mentioning; the reasons I talk about conservative use of activations/highest distance in some situations is of course because once you have picked it up you are holding it with a model that is very squishy. One of the unfortunate parts of our ladders is things like Pandora making great use of its positioning (boo!), Zoraida's ability to get the LoS off quite easily and companion (card reliant), Dreamer being able to happily interrupt.

These are the classic bad Gremlin matchups anyway.

The situations where you need conservation of momentum, rather than when you are out activate happying someone can occur as outlined in my previous post,and also as the scenario dictates as to whether you are grabbing and running in 1st turn, 2nd turn initiative, or waiting till turn 6 so that the enemy cannot interact with it in the normal turn limit scope.

The main problem with the late game run is that the "free" gremlin movement from the Pig Ladders are not pushes so enemy models can effectively shut it down via Disengaging Stikes. Situation will dictate as always, but an early game grab will usually force your opponent to change tactics to deal with your 4 VP.

If you are including Avatar Som'er in your crew, mosquitoes are still so useful for sooey, but each one costs throwing away two cards when you manifest. I usually allow most of my mosquitoes to go up field and use Gremlin's Luck to near kill them at the cost of enemy cards, manifest; throwing away two cards to keep one Mosquitoe who then kills off some Bayou Gremlins for new mosquitoes and cards. It will always depend on your situation, but things worth being aware of

Though a worthy suggestion it is also very resource intensive in terms of both models and activations. Replacing models (piglets and Bayou Gremlins) after manifestation is much more difficult for A-Some'r (Piglets require a 10 :tomes or higher or a 10% chance, or Bayou Gremlins require getting hit which is something A-Some'r doesn't handle well more than once).

[Spiku]

And with bad match ups it is even more important to know what options are present, especially for a new player who is favouring Gremlins over Outcasts, such as the aptly named Bayou Shark.

A wise player once suggested to me that as the 5th turn comes about, transition from summoning to alpha stank can come about; A.Som'er aims to appear at this point; you are free to send in 3 mosquitoes to use your Som'er spells, then manifest, refresh your mosquitoes and start denying areas. Certainly it's not what you do during recon, but it allows you to keep the strengths Som'er provides to his mosquitoes, with a refresh on them. Without slop haulers it becomes a bit more intensive re-summoning Bayou's given you know that if you transition to a gunline, they are likely going to be on 1 health from reckless shot anyway. A.Som'er also provides the option of alpha striking the gremlins.