Mentat_Canis Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Hello everyone I have one question has anyone played the Black Blood Shaman without a Desperate Merc or something else to get a blood and corpse counter from. List from this past weekend. 30soulstones Lilith -Primordial Lilu Lilitu Black Blood 2 Terror Tots Desperate Merc. Any idea's for bringing the Black Blood without an early blood counter machine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) Hello everyone I have one question has anyone played the Black Blood Shaman without a Desperate Merc or something else to get a blood and corpse counter from. List from this past weekend. 30soulstones Lilith -Primordial Lilu Lilitu Black Blood 2 Terror Tots Desperate Merc. Any idea's for bringing the Black Blood without an early blood counter machine? I do it all the time as I never play with that kinda strategy and I get great millage out of him. The trick is you need to keep him close t othe front and you honestly protect him via threat saturation. Really, they don't have much of a choice between the BB Shaman and say a Mature Neph or the Twins. It just requires a different way of thinking about the Shaman. My Tactica goes into depth about this (but has yet to be updated for his card which is really only a minor tweak or two) so I will defer to that for the most part. But without using the sacrifical model style of play, you think more long term gain. You set up Transpositions and Lures more carefully and bring things back to him. If you've got a solid hand, few things stand up to a full set of attacks from a Lelu especially if the BB Shaman has already buffed him. If you need that initial Blood Counter, cut him for it and go from there. Then you go about buffing your group and as long as you stay within Blood Sense range your grand. But really unless your trying to seriously push growing tots up really really fast... he's fine without some sacrifical model. I don't have his card on me at the moment to give you specifics, but check out the Tactica. I talk about him there a good amount and I'll try to circle back to this thread late tonight when I am around my cards. Edited July 26, 2011 by karn987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastershake Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I do it all the time as I never play with that kinda strategy and I get great millage out of him. The trick is you need to keep him close t othe front and you honestly protect him via threat saturation. Really, they don't have much of a choice between the BB Shaman and say a Mature Neph or the Twins. It just requires a different way of thinking about the Shaman. My Tactica goes into depth about this (but has yet to be updated for his card which is really only a minor tweak or two) so I will defer to that for the most part. But without using the sacrifical model style of play, you think more long term gain. You set up Transpositions and Lures more carefully and bring things back to him. If you've got a solid hand, few things stand up to a full set of attacks from a Lelu especially if the BB Shaman has already buffed him. If you need that initial Blood Counter, cut him for it and go from there. Then you go about buffing your group and as long as you stay within Blood Sense range your grand. But really unless your trying to seriously push growing tots up really really fast... he's fine without some sacrifical model. I don't have his card on me at the moment to give you specifics, but check out the Tactica. I talk about him there a good amount and I'll try to circle back to this thread late tonight when I am around my cards. A good thought unless you're playing against someone who doesn't drop counters (Hoffman, Dreamer, Kirai). IMHO better safe than sorry and paying 2 SS for a merc can generate 3 Blood counters if used properly, which should last you through the better part of the game especially if you're playing conservatively by damaging models instead of dropping the counter for Blood Magic then using an Inject Blood with the Bloody Mess trigger to heal most of the damage. A Shaman needs to be personally holding a counter for Inject Blood and Taint Blood and while most lists can get by without the latter, the Former can win games. I'm sure Karn has a great tactica on doing more with less or something, but 2SS for garaunteed turns of Blood Magic/Inject Blood can be worth it's weight in gold since those two spells often decide games and you can't always count on your opponent giving them to you. As a side note, Lilitu, Lelu and the Primordial also aren't generating counters upon death, so in your lists dropping the Merc could possibly mean the only blood counters on the table are the pair of tots, the Shaman and Lilith...not great options if you need blood counters in a pinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allidor Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 A good thought unless you're playing against someone who doesn't drop counters (Hoffman, Dreamer, Kirai). IMHO better safe than sorry and paying 2 SS for a merc can generate 3 Blood counters if used properly, which should last you through the better part of the game especially if you're playing conservatively by damaging models instead of dropping the counter for Blood Magic then using an Inject Blood with the Bloody Mess trigger to heal most of the damage. A Shaman needs to be personally holding a counter for Inject Blood and Taint Blood and while most lists can get by without the latter, the Former can win games. I'm sure Karn has a great tactica on doing more with less or something, but 2SS for garaunteed turns of Blood Magic/Inject Blood can be worth it's weight in gold since those two spells often decide games and you can't always count on your opponent giving them to you. As a side note, Lilitu, Lelu and the Primordial also aren't generating counters upon death, so in your lists dropping the Merc could possibly mean the only blood counters on the table are the pair of tots, the Shaman and Lilith...not great options if you need blood counters in a pinch. This assumes that you're wanting to run a grow list. I've had great success with taking Lilith, Primordial, BBS, Young and Terror Tots. If you know that you'll be playing a list that doesn't drop counters, either make it a more elite based list (more Young/Mature) or bring them yourself (Terror Tots) without wasting SS. By bringing more Terror Tots, you have your own counters, tarpit models of sorts, and people who can use said counters. It's all personal preference, but I've had much success with Lilith without rushing to grow everything with her. And if you really need a blood counter early on, bring a BBS and make a Blood Offering! Also, if you need to play a grow list with Lilith when you play a book 1 Resser AND bring BBS, you're doing something wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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