Pandora and Nephilim

[NeverBro]

Hello, I am currently trying to put together a pretty good 40 ss list with Pandora and reeeally want to include Nekima in it. What does everybody think of this list?

Pandora+6

Nekima-13

Lilitu-7

Lilitu-7

Lelu-7

Sorrow-3

Primordial magic-2

Focuses on the lilitu using lure at least a couple times with nekima's + mask on ca to get the trigger for an extra. Once they are within range the nephilim and they beat 'em up and make sure they are within 6 of nekima for a -2 wp, pandora activates and finishes them off.

Any responses/critique would be greatly appreciated!

[Allidor]

This actually sounds like a pretty unique and effective list. Kudos for that! One thing I might toy with is swapping out 2x Lillitu & 1x Lelu for 2x Lelu & 1x Lillitu. 2x Lillitu= double the Lures, but 2x Lelu= more damage and survivability. If someone makes their way up to you, they've got 2 face eaters to worry about before getting to Lillitu.

[Wodschow]

Incredibly cheesy list, has been discussed in length elsewhere before.. You can probably find it with a search of sorts..

It's very viable though..

[AdrianMills]

I have used somethign simlar with Zoraida as the master but only had the one set of twins. Nether thought of using Pandie with it though.

[Stargazer]

Woodschow is right very cheesy if not effective, Pandora is bad enough on her own before you start spamming the twins...

[karn987]

Actually this is not Cheesy by Malifaux standards. Its very mean, but it's certainly not cheesy. There are many ways to beat it and it's actually not all that hard to over-come if you think before you act against it. That said, you will not win many friends with this list.

I get the main idea, Nekima grants the Lilitu's the +M to their Ca so they auto trigger. It works very well when you can easily isolate your opponents models. BUT there are huge flaws in it people are overlooking for the scream and run reaction.

First, your setting yourself up for a hard time against high Wp opponents or those like the Ortega's who have Stubborn. Second, your pulling enemies in close to you, slow to die models have the potential to reak havoc as does anything with a death explosion (think Papa etc). Third, your front line is weak to non-existant. Your going to always be pulling models towards one of your two Lilitu's and that almost certainly will get them killed. If you plan out your twins Alpha strike correctly you should be able to burn down 1 model a turn without much of an interruption. But highly aggressive and fast crews will take you appart.

I've run this list a few times back when Book 2 game out (though at 35ss so minus the totem and sorrow) and their was this same reaction to Lilitu + Nekima. But you still have to cast the spell and they still have to fail ot resist. Albeit there isn't a huge chance you will fail, it does start draining on your cards rather quickly just like Pandora's Battle Train. It's very easy to over-extend yourself offensively and be left with little to no hand on the defensive. Then all it takes is a few good shots and your going to start losing critical models. I've had this list taken apart by the Ortegas and Gremlins before. Sure I can rip them a new one on my turn, but if your not careful the focused fire can really whittle you down.

The biggest advantage this list has is the 18" initiating range you have with Lure. Snagging someone that far out and starting to bring them in is what your built to do But once they press in upon you, you have to start being very careful and your more likely to rely on the Lilitu's Paralyzing spell then Lure. Sure when you get them in close the yare in Nekima's effect and now they are basically boned Wp wise, but there are still plenty of models that are dangerous at that range.

In the end, its a solid kill list. Its a bit weak on the objectives side of things but it can get it done. You've gotta be really careful of Blasts and AE's as you tend to be semi clumped up and Slow to Die will cause you a headache. Also any crew that can put up smoke, fog etc will cause you problems as will hyper aggressive crews and players. You need time to work your strategy and do damage from Lure and Emotional Trauma.

Edited June 30, 2011 by karn987

[Braindead]

I agree wholeheartedly with Karn.

As a Slaughter list it could work, but it lacks objective grabbing abilities - aside from steamrolling the board.

With a recommended amount of terrain and a 'fog' ability I think it would be easy enough to avoid being in the 18" kill zone for 2 turns at least, giving you the chance to achieve objectives.

I think the list would have a tendency to bunch-up too much as well. 'Bomb' lists could be a very effective counter.

With Pandy being involved, high WP is always useful. Obviously it depends on S&S but I wouldn't be too fearful if this was put in front of me.

I think it is pretty solid, but I wouldn't want to rely on it in A Line in the Sand or Destroy the Evidence.

[NeverBro]

Thanks for all the replies!

To Allidor: I actually thought of putting in an extra lelu instead or putting in the doppleganger, both could work I think, but I loove the lure hehe.

To Karn: Thanks for all the help thats exactly what i wanted to hear cus i was reading your tactica thinkin "hmm i know it wouldnt have been practical but i would have liked to know his thoughts on nekima with her" haha.

And as far as cheese goes i think i hit the climax of cheese using this list:

35 ss

Pandora+7

Doppleganger-8

candy-8

kade-6

x3 sorrow-9

primordial magic-2

using the doppleganger and mimicing unhealthy relationships is cheesy especially when the sorrows link with pandora turn 1, then turn 2 they get adjacent with the doppleganger and mimic pandoras cheese called emotional trauma:D And then when you start the Pandora battle train pushing around doing 4 wds when someone fails a wp duel within 12'. Now THAT is cheesy especially when someone builds a better list for it than i can with the above models.

[karn987]

Thanks for all the replies!

To Allidor: I actually thought of putting in an extra lelu instead or putting in the doppleganger, both could work I think, but I loove the lure hehe.

To Karn: Thanks for all the help thats exactly what i wanted to hear cus i was reading your tactica thinkin "hmm i know it wouldnt have been practical but i would have liked to know his thoughts on nekima with her" haha.

And as far as cheese goes i think i hit the climax of cheese using this list:

35 ss

Pandora+7

Doppleganger-8

candy-8

kade-6

x3 sorrow-9

primordial magic-2

using the doppleganger and mimicing unhealthy relationships is cheesy especially when the sorrows link with pandora turn 1, then turn 2 they get adjacent with the doppleganger and mimic pandoras cheese called emotional trauma:D And then when you start the Pandora battle train pushing around doing 4 wds when someone fails a wp duel within 12'. Now THAT is cheesy especially when someone builds a better list for it than i can with the above models.

Glad to hear I could be of some help then!

Yeah some day I may get around to fully flushing them all out but mostly my efforts have shifted to our Tactica Wiki project and other stuff. But post Gencon the plan is to tackle the wiki again big time and I know I personally have a lot of information to move, update, and expand from my Tactica's to the wiki. So some things like this will probably end up on it

@ Last Tactic: I don't have my cards on hand, but yes there is a way you can pull this off. But there is a reason I never post that stuff up XD. Good thinking though!

It is really convoluted to pull of in game though and is not actually as practical as it sounds.

Also the List is not cheesy by ANY means, that is actually one of her standard lists and often recommened for new players expanding beyond the Box Set. That Tactic is about certainly cheesy though XD but again, you can very easily deal with it if you think about it. So I'm not sure if that makes it actually cheesy..... *shrugs* but it's mmmeeeaaannnnn when it works correctly. It's a very good 1 turn burst when you need it. Remember, if they get within 3" of hte Sorrow they suffer a Wd from Emtional Stress AND Emotional Trauma! Making that 7Wds with Pandora and 8 if they are also in range of the Doppelganger.

Edited June 30, 2011 by karn987

[NeverBro]

So i tested this list out (Nekima and the twins) and it was very brutal. I played two games the first one i really wrecked a mcmourning crew, and then the second one i lost to collodi and zoraida which is a naaasty combo.