New to Malifaux, chosing my first master

[Calious]

Right, so I'm no newcomer to tabletop gaming, big player of 40k, warmahordes, MTG etc, and my local club have decided we're gonna start playing malifaux (which i was wanting to start a while back, so thats worked out well)

Now, I have a few fav's from reading the fluff i've found (anyone who can point me towards more Neverborn fluff would be my new hero) and i'm chosing a Master.

Now, i'm short on fluff, so i'm trying to stick to playstyles and i like the following 3.

Pandora

Lilith

The Dreamer

BUT, who to chose? I am leaning towards Pandora, as i love the idea of how she plays, I like the vampire/deamon stuff with lilith and the dreamer just sounds kinda cool to play.

BUT, i need to start with one box set... So...

I'm looking for a rundown on roughly how each plays, with a quickly explained rough turn sequence. So i get a feel of how they operate turn to turn.

Also, Is there a newer master out? that i perhaps have overlooked? If so, anyone feeling like adding in a rough idea of what he's about would be helping out too.. puppet master i think?

Anyways, sorry for the slightly lazy post, i have read a few tactica, i like the movement control for lilith and pandora, and the teleportation from the dreamer. I also love the heavy magic feel pandora has.

So, thanks to any who reply

[Koschai]

I am NO expert! I have bearly played a handful of games but have fallen in love with the game and have a scary number of models already. All I can tell you is what I've experienced.

I started with Pandora but found that she was hell on my opponents who were also new. Between being complicated for a newbie to play and driving my buddy to threaten to melt his models into bullets and shoot me with them I went a bought a 2nd gang. I still consider myself a Pandora 1st player but can't use her until we know the game better.

Next I picked up Von Schill and supplimented him with the Viks. I like that crew and find myself playing it more, but it's a little on the bland side so I went back to Neverborn.

I picked up Collodi and Lillith crews this past weekend. I have yet to play them but what made up my mind was Lillith is a beat stick that will give me a lot of enjoyment while being not too complex or too over the top. Collodi sounds a little like Pandora but I couldn't resist him background. Plus he will work beautifully with Pandora. Just to round it off I have the Zoraida blister on the way to give him an alternate master and round off my options.

This all included picking up extra models (most of the Neverborn range and a handful of mercs). For Lillith though I got the Black Blood Shamen but am being advised Nekima is so good that she is effectivly compulsory so I guess I'm failing another WP check thsi weekend lol.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Koschai

[karn987]

*Cracks knuckles* LETS DO THIS!

Pandora

Pandora is one of the more dangerous and mean Masters in the game. Her play style varies from powerful debuffing to outright decimation of the opponents crew. She has a heavy amount of speed but is completely reliant on enemy models for that speed. She basically has to effect them with Pacify/Incite to push around the board via Fading Memory. So she takes a lot of practice to get down right and often while your learning her you will screw up your timings and be left in the open to die XD

That said, she is focused around Wp duels and uses methods of attack most models and crews have little to no real defense against. So she is not a straightforward Master by any means. She has a good number of models that are also focused around Wp duels or at the very least have some of their own or can debuff the opponent. But she also generally wants atleast 1 strong melee model in her crew which often has some Wp effects of it's own (like Baby Kade, Coppelius, etc).

Lilith

Lilith is our Nephilim fem-fatal and a right mean women if you ask me. She is extremely quick and melee focused with some very powerful board control abilities added in. One of her most powerful tools is Transpositions which can switch the places of two models (enemy and friendly etc) so you can already guess the implications of that. She has a hard hitting Great Sword and I think the highest base Df in the entire game, making her really hard to hit and huge threat. She is has an ability called Master of Malifaux which lets her draw LOS through all terrain. Thats right, there is no hiding from her. Though she can't walk through walls, she could very easily Transposition a model from behind a wall or attack another through a wall (since you need LOS to attack, she can legally attack through walls).

Her crew is very very melee focused and quick. The Nephilim aren't exactly heavily armored or hard to kill once you can hit them... but it isn't all that easy to hit them. Plus a few of them can heal and possess powerful regenerative talents. They are a mix of extremely powerful melee creatures (some of the strongest in the game) and deadly and versatile support monsters. The original 3 Nephilim models, (Terror Tot, Young Nephilim, and Mature Nephilim) grow into each other. The Tot can turn into a Young who can turn into a Mature. So mid way through the game you can double and tripple your point investments with blood from your opponent!

The Dreamer

The Dreamer may be the most complex of the 3 to learn his initial play style mainly because you need to learn how the Dreamer and LCB cycle goes (see the Wiki for this, I've put a lot of effort into breaking it out for you there and though I need to finish it, hopefully that + the tactica spells it out enough). But once you get it down, he is a deceptively fast master that is less about quickly moving from point a to point b but more about showing up at Point C when he wants to. He almost exclusively uses Nightmares and all of his abilities are focuses around them leaving you very little to no reason to take anything but Nightmares with him. The Dreamer himself is all support truly, he is fragile and decently quick (can get a Wk 7 with Fly) and can Buff his Nightmares and debuff you against them. But his main thing is burying and unburying Nightmares.

Basically what happens is a buried model is out of play and isn't effected by the rest of hte game and the cycle of turns. So he buries his crew and then can unbury them later in the game where he wants and can do this as many times as he has actions for. So he can rapidly deposit his crew behind enemy lines or next to Masters and other important models and objectives. He plays like a Scalpel, carefully striking at the weakest points in your opponents forces and tearing them appart before burying his models and hiding from any return strikes.

LCB is his combat side, his big friend is one of the most lethal melee masters in the game and is quite able to kill most models in a single round. But for all this power, nearly every NIGHTMARE IS FRAGILE. They tend to have low Df, not a ton of Wds and will die to concentrated attacks very quickly. So its all about this bury and unbury mechanic and learning when to commit to a fight.

Phew.... so thats some of the basics of them! Hopefully that helps and if you have any more questions or specifics please ask! I'll direct you now to the Tactica wiki (link in my sig) and my Tactica's (link in my sig) and hope those fill the rest of the holes.

As for Fluff, I am sorry to say the main source of fluff is only truly the first two books of the game. So you NEED the Rules Manual for the rules and the other 2 books provide model stats and fluff now (the core rules in them are out of date now).

[Allidor]

One thing I always like to point out to someone selecting a Neverborn box is that if you get The Dreamer's boxed set all of his models will do well in a Pandora or Zoraida crew (to be fair there isn't much that doesn't do well in a Zoraida crew). But both the Stitched Together and Coppelius from Dreamer's box provide great WP duel potential and offensive capabilities. They'd fit right in with a Pandora crew, but Dreamer wouldn't have as much use with the contents of Pandora's box.

[Calious]

Well from what I'm reading I'll be starting with Pandora (I like difficult to learn masters/warlocks/warcasters/armies when I start a system. Helps make me a better player.

Plus, if she stays all competitive at high levels i'll stay happy enough. And eventually branch out into others...

So, Pandora's box, (lol) any other must get models for her?

[Koschai]

Your going to want the Doppleganger. That is a must!

From there it's all up to you. Stitched Togethers are very good as they can give you some shooting protection as well as spamming gamble your life (wp duel). Insidious Madness is a very nice fast moving spirit that can mess with peoples wp so he's really nice. A lot of people will say the Primordial Magic totem and its great, though I don't like the model.

I'm not sure how much use I'll get out of Teddy, but just thematically I had to have the model. Coppelius is also a great beaststick alternative that works really well with Pandora.

If you want to really change it up later on, you might also be interested in Collodi as teaming him up with Pandora will totally change your crew, but his giving Stitched togethers WP8 and fast while in the aura of Pandora and a doppleganger... ouch.

If you can find it check out the podcast the Aethervox. They recently ran a full extended interview/tactical guide to using Pandora that was increadibly useful. Also helped me generally get a better grasp on the game. Highly recommended.

[Calious]

Awesome, cheers for the tips. I'll try to hunt out the podcast :-)

Gives me a few extra models to buy and expand into once we get out of the "battlebox" games

[harbinger]

Ill be the first to tell you to play what YOU want!! That being said, if you do stick with Pandora expect to be "hated" quite quickly... It always sounds great to pick a master it sounds like wins all the time, but cant win many games if dont have opponents to play against

As said I in no way support telling a player what they can and can not play; I find that poor sportsmanship. There is a number of players that will flat out growl when you toss her down. And personally if a person shows up at the local shop twice a week 5 weeks in a row with the same box of cheese (say Pandora and the twins) I would stopped playing them by week 3. And considering Im the easy going one.. that means you just spent last 2 weeks watching others play.

Its kind of that silly Team Edward/Jacob stuff. Cept in Malifaux its Team Pandora and Team Hamelin and noone likes you if your wearing either t-shirt.

[Allidor]

It's different depending on where you play I'd imagine. At my LGS, Pandora isn't really vilified. I think the biggest complaints I've come across at the LGS are regarding Stitched Together's "Does Not Die" (though he eventually warmed up to the idea when he realized that I die at the end of the turn anyway) and Dreamer's overall playstyle (mobile troop transport). And those were both more irritation than cries of "cheese!" once the mechanics behind them were explained.

When it comes to whether or not something is cheesy, use your best judgement. For instance, I feel like running Stitched Together with Dreamer is fair game, but I refuse to run Alps in large numbers as I feel that the Alp Bomb is pretty cheesy.

[Calious]

Ok, firstly, I'm playing with tourney players who are all use to cheese...

Second, I will be frustrated with other characters if I feel I could run her better.

Thirdly, i'll happily get someone else to play with once the groans start, but, I think learning to play with a hard to use caster can be a fun challenge in itself.

Lastly, I now love you for the twilight reference :-p haha. And I'm pretty sure no one likes you if ur wearing either twilight shirt :-p

[magicpockets]

Ok, firstly, I'm playing with tourney players who are all use to cheese...

Second, I will be frustrated with other characters if I feel I could run her better.

Thirdly, i'll happily get someone else to play with once the groans start, but, I think learning to play with a hard to use caster can be a fun challenge in itself.

It's obvious you want a power-crew so go for Pandora, Poltergeist, JackDaw, Doppleganger, a couple of sorrows and a Stitched Together. Get the synergies right and you'll decimate 9/10 opponents and comfortably beat the other one - but like Harbringer says, even in a tourny setting you'll have the p*ss taken out of you and will get little satisfaction from winning. But it's your dime

[karn987]

It's obvious you want a power-crew so go for Pandora, Poltergeist, JackDaw, Doppleganger, a couple of sorrows and a Stitched Together. Get the synergies right and you'll decimate 9/10 opponents and comfortably beat the other one - but like Harbringer says, even in a tourny setting you'll have the p*ss taken out of you and will get little satisfaction from winning. But it's your dime

Agreed in most ways except I don't like Jack Daw. Something always seems to go wrong with him and honestly I can get half of what he does with the Madness essentially (the can't cheat) or Pandora herself. Just put a Negative Flip debuff on them and they can't cheat! Simple enough to me. I MUCH prefer Lilitu and Lelu with Pandora as that gives you a very lethal one two punch along with powerful melee from Lelu and strong support from Lilitu. Lilitu brings more model control to the board with Lure and a spell that Paralyzes or debuffs and Lelu is brutal in melee and extremely fast healing. Together the only way to be rid of one of them is to kill one of them outright in a single turn. If they get the chance to activate after that, they will most certainly heal most if not all of the damage they suffered.

Plus the Twins are a world better for objective based games then Jack Daw for many reasons. First and formost is the threat of Black Blood and Paralyze from Lilitu, making great deterrents for you. Sure is more points for the 2 of them, but the 2 of them are well worth it. I urge you to read the Tactica entry on them before considering anything else.

The other thing is you dont want to go full power Wp duels, if you don't have some strong melee you will lose to experienced players who know how to handle Pandora. There are also some crews out there which are just a handful for Pandora to deal with, like the Ortegas for example. The point is, don't put all your eggs in one basket, take one melee model at least and if possible you want one that can do Wp duels and melee power or someone like Lelu who is a complete beat stick.

The Doppelganger is nice but iffy at times with Pandora. Again your relying mostly on Wp duels if your using her to copy Pandora's abilities (Generally emotional Trauma and something else) so be wary of that. Though the negative flip she gives to your opponents Init flips is very very nice. But I have had just as much luck with 2 Sorrow who turn out to do a lot more damage then the Doppelganger can. It all depends on how you want to play Pandora. I prefer to play with Sorrows and hybrid models and basically go full offensive. If things go badly I switch to harrassing. But most turns I go flying into the enemy, walk to bring my Sorrows to me, decimate my opponent, and then battle train away to safety. While with the Doppelganger it's more akin to settling up ambushes, getting everything into position and then going all out on them. But your generally putting a little more control into their hands because they have to walk into that trap.

Basically I just want you to understand there is no 1 way to play Pandora and you don't want to rely completely on Wp duels. You always want to play to your Strategy and Schemes so chose your crew carefully around that. If you have something movement based, then Sorrows are great for that as they will tag along with Pandora. But if you have something like Slaughter, then the Doppelganger can really shine.

Any way, I think you get the point by now. Ask questions if you got them and see the sample crews in the Tactica/wiki. When you have an idea what you want to bring, throw it up! I'm sure everyone here will be more then happy to provide feedback.

Edited June 17, 2011 by karn987

[Calious]

Cheers guys. I do like my "power" stuff in games, but I'm not wanting to use her to just totally own everyone she sounds interesting to use. A bit complex but all the better for it kinda thing.

I know so far that there'll be a kirai player, a cult of December player and a Ramos player. Nothing else confirmed yet I don't think.

So, incase I decide to splash out on 2 boxes, what's the next caster I should take? How does the puppet guy play? It'll likely be between him and Lilith.

[harbinger]

If your sticking to Pandora as one the boxes then Id say Lilith. The twins are useful with either master. Lilith is a good straight forward master to learn with so thats a plus (not to mention she can/will lay a beat down on someone.) Toss in a Nekima mini box and it will be "good time, good times."

Collodi and Zoraida would be the flip side of the coin. Its said they work well together (Im getting ready to prime my Collodi box atm so no first hand knowledge.) That would mean its easy for you to expand your setup. Word on the street is the big drawback to Collodi is currently he has very limited model choices (Im sure that will change.) but the drawback is more a visual thing of having to use multiples of same minis... not that he has issues with being able to slap others around.

[Calious]

Well, collodi and zoraida are prob my least fav masters in neverborn... So I'll stick to lilith and pandora I think. :-)

Cheers for all the advice guys, jus gotta wait for payday to put an order together...

[KoreyMalifaux]

I've been playing Lilith for some time now and I'm sure the players at my LGS are growing tired of playing against her lol. I've expanded with the twins and black blood shaman. For my next crew I'm thinking of picking up Zoraida for a change of pace. The good thing about playing the Neverborn faction is the versatility of your minions. For instance you could effectively use the twins with any Neverborn masters. I chose my first master by demoing a crew from each faction, reading the fluff, and picking the box I thought looked coolest. I'm sure you'll have fun with any Neverborn crew you pick!