twofalls Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 My Lilith crew against your Ramos wasn't really much of a game, the cards were just magical and land slided in my favor. Not much anyone could have done against that. It's nice to have a win though when learning how to play the game, its encouraging. I'm sure next time you will dice me as we add complexity to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted April 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Yepx nothing you can do about beginners luck. Getcha every time. Just beware of Genetic's "balanced" Hoffman list. His definition and our definition of balanced is different. Welcome to Stump Town's most misguided club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twofalls Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Well, games should be balanced as much as possible, but whatever. I'm not Mr. Competitive. I'd just like to have a little fun and explore this game some. It seems well done. And thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordOfTheGrave Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 it's balanced. Genetic is just hard to beat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genetic Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Its balanced.. 50% shooting 50% melee, 100% kick ass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 I still need to test my wits against you Genetic. I don't think I will make it this weekend but should be able to make next weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twofalls Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 So I just send Wyrd an email regarding the missing arm on my Death Marshall. Now I guess we will see if they replace it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Hey Twofalls I was just poking at Genetic earlier about his list because he does know how to build tough lists. Malifaux is a well designed game that I believe is very balanced. It is just that Genetic likes to give me a hard time so I give him it back, all friendly in spirit though. But I am still going to melt his Nino down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genetic Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Hey Twofalls I was just poking at Genetic earlier about his list because he does know how to build tough lists. Malifaux is a well designed game that I believe is very balanced. It is just that Genetic likes to give me a hard time so I give him it back, all friendly in spirit though. But I am still going to melt his Nino down. I'm not joking... you can shoot nino all you want... RYLE will still kill your mature.. and anything else that gets in his way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 I'm not joking... you can shoot nino all you want... RYLE will still kill your mature.. and anything else that gets in his way. I hate it when you're right. I'll find a way, you just wait.(Hopefully it won't take till book 3.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twofalls Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Advance behind the cover of a pair of stitched together and illusory forests? Then dive charge Nino and the abomination Ryle over the cover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordOfTheGrave Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 So, who is coming tonight, need to try out exploding pigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Advance behind the cover of a pair of stitched together and illusory forests? Then dive charge Nino and the abomination Ryle over the cover? Lol. That is exactly what I did and it was working, till Ryle backed up and one shoted my fully healthy mature that was advancing up the rear to take out his range. It was more luck than anything else due to his three severe flips in a row for damage. I'll be there but I think Genetic might have my first game. He has a list he has been threatening me with, so I will see what I can do to stop Jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genetic Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 sorry I didn't make it out yesterday.. I was watching UFC with some friends.. I should be there weds.. which will be a painting night.. unless you guys really want to play.. i personally HAVE LOTS OF PAINTING TO GET FINISHED>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twofalls Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Thank you for the lesson last night Murphy, I enjoyed meeting you and see clearly now that I have a lot to learn about this game. I have concerns about some of the models we discussed. I own a Nino, and frankly I've played enough miniature games now to know that there is one in most games. GW has done a decent job in weeding some of their worst cases out... but any model that completely dominates a game and is considered a "must have" by the power gaming community is very suspect of being bad for the game as a whole. I haven't played against him yet, but I have serious concerns about this model. That which damages the game, should be cut from it. Thanks again for the lesson, I look forward to getting to know you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Nino/Hans/Trapper doesn't outrange lure. Headshot is a pain when it works, but Nino can't do anything once someone is hitting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 I was discussing with him on ways to deal with ranged threats when it came up that every Guild player I know brings Nino no matter who the Master is.(Henchmen excluded.) His concern is that when there is a model that is a must have in every list there is something wrong with that model. I know when I hear my opponent is bring Guild I have certain goto models that I bring to shut down Nino. He is 7pts that every Guild player I know brings to the table. I learned in WM/H that instead of trying to get players to expand their list selection I instead use their predictability to my advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordOfTheGrave Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 I've never had a problem to bad with Nino. He is a tough model, but there are tons of tough models. They did a good job calculating points for models. For 7 points he can kill, but he dies really easy so it makes him balanced. Stay out of his line of sight, block his line of sight, bring hard to wound to the table or armor figures. Over all i think he is brought to the table for two reasons, good figure, and everyone loves a sniper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 I hear you TwoFalls Nino is a beast, but can he be countered? Yes. I don't usually auto include Nino, because a lot of players know when someone says guild they are likely bringing Nino and will bring a counter. Heres a great list of models that can take care of Nino some cheaper some more: Belles Lilitu Rasputina and crew Collette and crew Stiched Together Nico Steamborg Executioner Hans Trapper December Acolyte Pigapult Rami Dreamer crew and alps Just to name a few. Then any model that has obey can take full advantage of his presence on the board. I have seen Nino wipe 2 friendly models off the board in one turn and thanks to Obey and some lucky draws. Keep in mind you can use his triggers when you obey. Zoradia and her Totem Perdita and her Totem Abuela Hamelin minion List might be longer. Keep in mind this game is built around the idea of one thing countering another, much like all other games that have the rock, paper, scissors mechanics. When I can make down, I will show you some examples of neutralizing Nino if you want. This game doesn't favor snipers all that much the board is suppose to covered with terrain which usually means most models 2" or smaller should be able to stay out of LOS. Which trigger are you most worried about? Both triggers have ways to counter and it has to do with how you utilize your control hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 He hasn't experienced Nino yet, he just saw Rami take out s teddy in one activation and realized this is Nino's counter part. I gave James dome pointers and he seems smart enough to figure out some good counters. He is just not happy to see there are auto includes in Malifaux. He is more interested in casual games vs power gaming. Completely understandable position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twofalls Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) I think also that the game last night was maybe too light on cover? It seems there needs to be a balance for crews to be able to preform well. Shooty crews need adequate lines of fire, while CC crews need cover to live long enough to actually be able to get across the board. The same issue exists in 40K, which is the mini game I'm most familiar with. In that game, the actual rules state that the more terrain you place on the table the better and more fair the fight is likely to be. I was playing against an insane number of shooty goblins and even the standard crew members were killing my biggest models last night. Looking at the board... I'm of the opinion that I had no real way to get to my opponent before the cream of my crew would be dead without luck favoring me. I haven't yet played enough to know if that is the normal experience for CC crews, or if I am just not using what cover is available to my best advantage. I'm sure more experience with the game will teach me how to build crews that can handle very shooty lists. However, if a CC crew MUST have Stitched Together to effectively fight a range crew, that would also indicate a game issue. Does this make sense? Edited May 1, 2011 by twofalls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) I got you. I think it is foolish to have Nino an auto include in guild that is 7ss killing mahcine that moves very slow. This game is great because it is not fixed list, it is important to build your crew to the scheme and strategy if you want to win. Also the gaming group is great, most of the players seem willing to tailoring the crews to a fun or competitive whichever you want to play. I find it fun to ask my opponent to pick my master or faction. Were you playing Lilth agaisnt his gremlins? That is a tough fight until you get close. A good means to avoiding being shot to death is wait to mature. It is harder to hide a 3" mature versus a 2" young. Stitched would be to slow and lack of synergy in Lilth crew but Tue twins would be a good counter and still be theme. Do you like to play more theme lists and less competive? I came from 40k too and have little desire to go back. Edited May 1, 2011 by Mr. Bigglesworth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genetic Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 No offense James but... malifaux is a very new game. and they have done a very good job of listening to the community and when people express concerns about a model, they do a good job of fixing the problem.. Nino use to be far worst.... My first miniature game I ever played was 40k, Infact i played it from 2nd edition to 5th, and i know for a fact that GW was balance issues depending on who writes the codex... ;P Is nino a pain in the butt, YES... but every faction has models that are a a pain... I dont think i've ssen a lilith player play a game with out a mature yet.. Leveticus with out rusty alice, ramos with out the steamborg, ect... most crews have an auto include... does that make them broken??? Im not saying that malifuax is perfect, just play a few more games before you rage quit, or jump on the broken bus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) Wait wait wait. Lol. Just to make it clear, it did get blown out a little here, James was not mad at all. He was just expressing a concern. We both agreed that his biggest issue was do to the lack of knowledge of the game mechanics concerning terrain, and I did my best to go over them when it came up. I also agree that there needs to be more forests available to use and the issue of James not realizing smaller based models could climes through Windows got him too. I honestly thought Genetic got more time with James on Wed so I started to pull the Gremlin tactics before I realized this. I am sure you all know what I am saying. Sorry about that James. Edited May 2, 2011 by Murphy'sLawyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordOfTheGrave Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I love cheeseeeeeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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