Bozzy Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hello all..long time reader first time poster.. Bunch of us are gonna start running regular tournies and figured it a good time to discuss my lists and thoughts with others.. Ive tested a bunch of models so far and still plenty to go.... 35 SS Pandy Train Current staples.. Pandora Lelu + 7 Lillitu +7 Dopplegager +8 -Im up to removing lelu and lillitu if better option arises...But they have been very reliable for me thus far... -Sorrows havent performed to well for me but up for trying them in different lists.. -The madnesses havent done bad and a definite considertion.. -Candy always makes me feel safe.. But cant say one way or the other if she is a definite take.. -Teddy usually just to slow for me with pandy never really worth his points - Some peices im gonna try out are -Performer and Manniquin...Hamlin...Hooded Rider..Coppeious..Alps. guess what im askin is what are others 35 ss lists looking like and also their take on some of the models I've listed...Ive read the forums a lot as well as all the tacticas.. and they have done a lot for me.. now its just down to tweaking.. (appologize for the layout of the post but it is 5am and thoughts are jumbled...thanks to everyone in advance..and im sure this will be the first post of many LoL ) Bozzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I'm play testing a Pandora list at the minute. So far for 35ss I've got - Pandora Poltergeist (2ss) Doppleganger (8ss) 2x Stitched Together (10ss) 4x Alps (12ss) 3ss to add to SS Cache For 30ss I drop one of the Stitched. It seems to work really well so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Not sure if youve tried them but lelu and lillitu have always performed superbly..tried out performer and mannequin last night against ophelia..tho they didn't do anything good or bad I still haddem wiped by turn four..so further testing with them its needed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Green Git Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I've run Pandora with Candy and Baby Kade with Teddy. The "Where's Teddy?" bit works pretty well, especially with Lure. Also a big fan of the Doppleganger and Poltergeist. Hooded Rider... hmmm... he could be a good transport mechanism to get Sorrows up to the front fast. Attach the Sorrows to the Hooded Rider and use that big 50mm base and height to shield them until you get close enough for them to spring off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Honestly you can not go wrong with Sorrows now that Link is back in full force. 2 or 3 is the general recommended amount and any more gets to be a bit much. Candy is a very solid choice as she is exceptionally tough to kill, brings healing, and another source of Self-Loathing which is an amazing spell. Madness is an epic model for many reasons, least of all the AE of Negative Flips to Wp he can inflict on people. That alone makes him worth a slot in my book. But honestly, I think your in a good place. I would recommend actually avoiding Alps because without the right terrain or careful use of Stitched Together's they will die very quickly because your opponent will not want to let them close. I think your much better off with Sorrows in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) But honestly, I think your in a good place. I would recommend actually avoiding Alps because without the right terrain or careful use of Stitched Together's they will die very quickly because your opponent will not want to let them close. The double negative to hit is a massive bonus here (just watch blast damage). And if you combine pacify (or incite the "long way round" of doing things) with Alps you can run up onto a model 10" away with a bunch of Alps before it can activate - and don't forget every failed duel gets an extra wound from Pandora. It's even better if you move in the Poltergeist (remember it can go through other models to a free space) and leave it in base contact with the enemy model before it can activate - instant slow so instant wounds, then the moral dual for activating for more instant wounds. With 3 alps and Pandy that's typically 7 wounds before it can use its 1st AP - and of course there's more wounds when it uses it's AP As Karn says though, Stitched together "creeping fog" is great for protecting your alps from ranged attacks - keep them within 4" and they either can't be seen or get a triple negative to be hit. Re sorrows, they're a LOT better now link has been fixed and Siphon Magic is 2AP (so you can do it same turn as linking now). However they're a target for bouncing blast templates into Pandora (as no WP test to hit a sorrow) and they're insignificant so won't help with VPs. I'm not a big fan of sorrows tbh, but I think that's more because I haven't got used to using them properly rather than them being "bad" models. Edited January 5, 2011 by magicpockets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Lovin the advice soooo far gonna give both a shot (assuming both sorrows and alps both work brr in groups of three..)... Has anyone tried much with the rider (if I removed likely and lilitu) Or the performer and mannequin who on paper look like great synergy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well I have issues with Alps with any master but the Dreamer because they are simply, really easy to kill. Their whole power comes from his ambush drop and running in is still useful, but not nearly as dangerous. So I would recommend Sorrows over Alps in almost every case with Pandora. That said, they certainly have uses as they make great defensive models for her. You stick them in spots were people have to go through them to get to her. This way you can trap them in your tar pit. Or you use Lelu to Lure models into their Tar pit. But just running them up is ok, but to easy to pick them off one by one as they come in. For Sorrows Vs AE's, just be careful with them. You don't have to leave them linked to Pandora when she could be targeted by AE's. Just using Link at the start of the game can be enough to get them up field so they can start using their abilities. You don't always have to stay next to the model you are linked to, you can chose not to follow up. Since people started using AE's to counter Sorrows, we've adapted tactics to deal with AE's and still get your monies worth out of them ;D As for the Hooded Rider, he is a very very good model with any Neverborn master. While he does not have any real synergy with Pandora, his over-all power and abilities make him a viable choice still. The only real draw back with him is that he has no Wp based effects for her to synergize with, but you dont always want all Wp reliant models. So like Teddy, he is a very very good model to take up the slot of the melee beat stick in your list. I love him but prefer the death by Wp effects style of play with her. But even then, I will whip him out vs Perdita or Sonnia more often then not. For the Peformer and Mannequin, they do certainly have some nice synergy but are really really expensive for her. Plus with all the other Wp based models you have, I have a hard time ever justifying taking them over say Sorrows or madness etc. But some people love them, so I think it's a matter of style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natty Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well I have issues with Alps with any master but the Dreamer because they are simply, really easy to kill. Their whole power comes from his ambush drop and running in is still useful, but not nearly as dangerous. So I would recommend Sorrows over Alps in almost every case with Pandora. I agree with Karn that alps aren't that great in a Pandora army. I dislike sorrows quite a bit but I would take them over Alps any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yea I personally like lelu as my mellee beat stick..just trying to talk about every option..and the performer mannequin duo seams expensive..but really its two models at four ss each which is like two sorrows list I might test this upcoming week wil probally be... Pandora +6 Lelu - 7 Lillitu -7 Doppleganger -8 Mannequin & Performer -8 Obsidious madness -4 Might go with totem over madness and have an 8 cache..this is just a test to see how performer and mannequin do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yea I personally like lelu as my mellee beat stick..just trying to talk about every option..and the performer mannequin duo seams expensive..but really its two models at four ss each which is like two sorrows list I might test this upcoming week wil probally be... Pandora +6 Lelu - 7 Lillitu -7 Doppleganger -8 Mannequin & Performer -8 Obsidious madness -4 Might go with totem over madness and have an 8 cache..this is just a test to see how performer and mannequin do... 100% by all means, give them a try. I don't like them but thats just me. Natty doesn't like Sorrows, but thats him. =D Pandora's beauty is she plays well with any model. I to like Lelu as my beat-stick, but only when I have Lilitu with me. Otherwise I tend to go with Kade or the Rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natty Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Might go with totem over madness and have an 8 cache..this is just a test to see how performer and mannequin do... I like a large cache on Pandora and I LOVE her totem. After my first few games with her I don't think I've ever played without 7 or 8 soulstones. They are just so handy to both staying alive and making irresistible fall back triggers. Her totem can cause a lot of wp duels, but most often I just used it as a positioning distraction with 7 defense. You can't really ignore it and 7 defense means they have to waste some resources killing it. If they don't waste the resources killing it, then it can start causing huge area AoE wp duels, which is just plain gross when you have emotional trauma and a doppelganger also copying emotional trauma. It's also nice to make your own guys go last when you want to manipulate the activation order and double activate something by going first the next turn (since doppelganger means you usually win initiative). After I used it for that a couple times though, I found it really cheesey and stopped doing it. MAINLY THOUGH!!!! MAINLY ---- It can cast dementia on your own Pandora. Then every time she takes an action, she has to take a wp test. When she wins the wp test, she gets a free 4 inch push. AMAZING!!! You get to add a ton of free movement that way. Note though, be careful casting it unless you have a few midrange cards you don't mind burning in case the flip fails. If you cast it when all you have is really high or really low cards, you can mess yourself up. Don't go anywhere without your totem! Love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Wow i think I'm a good pandora player and never thought of the dementia movement shananagains..guess thiers still tons of tricks to learn =)..so natty I've read a lott of your posts and wandered what your cookie cutter pandora list looks like.... also side note..i knoww ill be seeing perdita and von scowl among others in any tourney...its perdita the terrible game of grab ass I imagine..and vin schiel..just seems like solid wall..beatable but rough.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natty Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Wow i think I'm a good pandora player and never thought of the dementia movement shananagains..guess thiers still tons of tricks to learn =)..so natty I've read a lott of your posts and wandered what your cookie cutter pandora list looks like.... My tournament Pandora list (which is to say it is NO fun and almost unfair to play against) is: Pandora Poltergeist Doppelganger Rest of the points in Silurids The main thing being to use the totem to activate the Silurids last, have them leap across the field getting insane amounts of attacks, then the doppelganger gives you initiative the next turn and you companion them all again. It is almost impossible to stop because of the ridiculous range on the Silurids (They can charge a model 18 inches away and get a free attack if they hit, then the second turn they get 2 attacks on the model each with a free attack if they hit). Now, the Silurid alpha strike should target anything on the table that presents any kind of threat to Pandora + Doppelganger. Then, I honestly never care if the Silurids are wiped out because you have elminited any threat to Pandora, and she can pick apart the rest of their crew. As a final note, this crew has never failed to go 8-0 in the about 10ish times I've played it. It is SO f-ing boring sometimes that it caused me to retire Pandora after a tournament director asked me to never play Pandora again. The reason this crew is so boring is that lets say you have 4 silurids, you activate them all at the end of your turn, make 4 leaps, 4 charges, do 4 attacks, 4 free attacks, get initiative, activate 4 silurids, do 8 attacks, get 8 free attacks... You make about a billion attacks in between your opponent taking a single action. The attacks go on so long and are so repetitive even I'm getting bored doing them because there is no change up, it is the same claw/bite claw/bite claw/bite over and over. On top of that, the threat range on the tactic is 20 inches (9 inch leap, 9 inch charge, 2 inch reach) so even a really good player has a hard time stopping it. Basically, I recommend NEVER running silurids with poltergeist so that your friends will stay your friends. Now, my "fun" Pandora crew was always changing. The staples were: Pandora Doppelganger Poltergeist Those were a given. Honestly, those three together are a force to be reckoned with, and I just changed up the rest of the crew based on the strategy I got. I often played with Kade and Teddy just because I LOVE the Kade model. Little kid with a bear and knife go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natty Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 also side note..i knoww ill be seeing perdita and von scowl among others in any tourney...its perdita the terrible game of grab ass I imagine..and vin schiel..just seems like solid wall..beatable but rough.. I've only had to play against Perdita twice with Pandora. Most of the game I spent making sure that Pandora was out of range of Perdita and playing defense and saving all my high crows for one massive attack. Then, when I had 3 high crows in my hand, I incite/pacify/dementia over to Perdita and try to make her fall back, use a high crow, soulstone it, and hope my soulstone is better than hers. Then do that again and again until she falls back. I've never played against the freicorps at all, let alone with Pandora, but crews like that is why I always recommend taking a melee heavy crew (Silurids, Teddy, Kade, etc) because a wp heavy crew is just gonna lose. Having to face an entire army with stubborn is gonna make the game really hard to win. ------------- Another note: I have never taken them because I retired Pandora before their models finally got released and I try not to proxy, but I think that Lelu/Lelitu look REALLY powerful with Pandora. The combo of melee power with some backup wp duels seems amazing. Throw in a stitched together for the fog to cover the doppel and it seems like it would be far better than teddy+kade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Dementia on Pandora is one of those... less favorable tactics. Its very effective but honestly... it is an abuse (hence why I never mention it). But if that's how you want to play her, by all means go for it! Have fun your way and don't let me stop you =D Natty that list of yours is very solid... and very mean =D I guess we are seeing 2 big variations on play style right now between us and I'm finding it interesting. Certainly has me thinking. Edited January 7, 2011 by karn987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I've never played against the freicorps at all, let alone with Pandora, but crews like that is why I always recommend taking a melee heavy crew (Silurids, Teddy, Kade, etc) because a wp heavy crew is just gonna lose. Having to face an entire army with stubborn is gonna make the game really hard to win. They aren't just going to lose vs Stubborn, its just going to be a bit harder. I've taken down the Freikorp with Wp based Pandora crews without a ton of trouble. Sure they resisted a few more things here and there, but Madness does wonderful things for cutting their chances in half. You just have to change you way of playing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natty Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 They aren't just going to lose vs Stubborn, its just going to be a bit harder. I've taken down the Freikorp with Wp based Pandora crews without a ton of trouble. Sure they resisted a few more things here and there, but Madness does wonderful things for cutting their chances in half. You just have to change you way of playing it. Yeah, I think my "gonna lose" wording was a bit strong. Especially since I've never even played a Von Schill crew nor have I ever even seen one played. None of my friends play them because none of us really like the models. I think the flame dude is the only cool looking Freicorps model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natty Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Dementia on Pandora is one of those... less favorable tactics. Its very effective but honestly... it is an abuse (hence why I never mention it). But if that's how you want to play her, by all means go for it! Have fun your way and don't let me stop you =D I agree. Dementia should be changed to "enemy" model. It is cheesy as all hell. Natty that list of yours is very solid... and very mean =D I guess we are seeing 2 big variations on play style right now between us and I'm finding it interesting. Certainly has me thinking. Well, let's agree on one thing, that the following list would be nasty: Pandora Doppelganger Poltergeist Lelu/Lilitu Stitched Together Depending on playstyle, you could switch Stitched with a Madness. I'd probably stick with a Stitched though. A good mix of Wp duels and physical. Good defensive abilities with the Stitched Together's fog. The ability to complete most objectives. Counters to most other crews out there. If you had a tournament setting where you couldn't change your list based on strategy, something like this is probably what I'd play. I vote this list as the most well rounded Pandora crew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Through testing I would have too agree..veryyy well balanced so far..might try the slurid one sometime..me and friends can ask play fun our play for most competitive..never hurts too have a list for both..and slurid might counteract the double austrungers some people like to run lol.. Ill try to keep everyone updated with my playing..theirs a group of seven of us plus more at the local store we have every master pretty much represented and play test often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 So the league is starting soon.. Its gonna be bring 50 points of models...each game will be 35ss... Olmost evey master will be accounted for no repeats.....the list I'm bringing will probally be.. Pandora Hooded rider - 8 Lelu - 7 Lillitu - 7 Poltergiest - 2 Doppleganger - 8 Sorrow - 3 3x Slurrid - 15 Any opinions..i could remove slurids for a stitched and candy..or others .hooded rider I figure will do his own thing wile pandoa does hers gonna test more always option of removal.. questions comments concerns??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
128th_king Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Pandora +6 Lelu - 7 Lillitu -7 Doppleganger -8 Mannequin & Performer -8 Obsidious madness -4 Might go with totem over madness and have an 8 cache..this is just a test to see how performer and mannequin do... Pandora has a Cache of 5 doesn't she? or has that been upgraded? I've been running Hamelin lately.... the ability to double cast obey is amazing, and Piper's lure is Fantastic! he has a nice variety of powers to use on people and has a nice synergy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Tournies goin fine so far.. thus far undefeated.. actually the entire neverborn faction is currently undefeated (and its faction based),,,,, Havent had a spot where i put in the silurids yet... Next tourny id definitly consider stitched together or hamlin in the side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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