hamelin, the void, drawing cards question.

[ilikepizza]

the void rule says you can draw a card from the top of either your discard pile or your deck whenever your opponent cheats so, here's 2 questions...

1. can you cheat a high card, (lets say, a 12 of whatever) your opponent cheats and then, because its top of your disard pile you pick it up again?

2. if you do this, do you still use the card number to determine the duel total and any triggers from the cards suit, despite it no longer being in the discard pile?

I can't find anything stopping me from doing this, but I thought it would be worth a check

[Chucklemonkey]

I'm no authority but that is exactly the way I read it. The fact it is no longer in the discard pile makes no difference, the duel total has already been determined.

[ilikepizza]

ok, thas what i figured but thought I'd just check. I think when my opponent cheats I'll tell him where I'm going to draw my ard from, and if its from the discard, I'll wait for him to resolve the duel totals and me to resolve any triggers (although I'll pick it up before he does triggers, you never know, I might need it to save a rat from slit jugular, oh wait, if someone slit jugulars a rat another pops up )

[LastDinosaur]

If you mean in an opposed duel.. Then I believe you won't discard your cards untill the opponent have cheated aswell.

So you can't cheat it in, discard it at once and then when the opponent cheats during the same duel pick up the card again.

The whole thing about in which order you discard cards is somewhat of a mess though.

[Chucklemonkey]

Hmmn, just re-read the It's all in the cards section of book 1 and have to say I think we both have this wrong.

"After you resolve a game event in which you use cards, immediately move the cards used during the event to your discard pile"

If you classify a duel as a game event, which I would, then after cheating fate, there is still the opportunity to use soulstones and then the calculation of the final total and the application of triggers kicks in.

At that point the cards are moved to the discard pile.

So the card you cheated with has not made it to the discard pile at the point you can draw a card.

Still glad I re-read that section, cards moved to the discarded pile can be placed in any order, nice to know the answer to something that may come up when placing the Red Joker on the top of a pile of 3 or 4 discarded cards...

[Chucklemonkey]

If you mean in an opposed duel.. Then I believe you won't discard your cards untill the opponent have cheated aswell.

So you can't cheat it in, discard it at once and then when the opponent cheats during the same duel pick up the card again.

The whole thing about in which order you discard cards is somewhat of a mess though.

Ninja'd me on the actual topic, but you can discard cards in the order of your choice, pg 34 of book 1 when talking about the discard pile.

Edit: sorry for the double post.

[tenabrae]

Yup Chucklemonkey has my understanding of it... You discard them all at the end of the duel, in any order you like.

Just to clarify the initial post, it isn't when your opponent cheats, it's when your opponent plays a control card.

[Sezar]

Just to clarify the initial post, it isn't when your opponent cheats, it's when your opponent plays a control card.

Not at home and so I don't have my books available for checking, but would that mean that if Hamelin's crew forced the opponent to discard any number of cards from his Hand as the result from some Spells/Triggers... Hamelin's controller would be able to take that same number of cards onto his own Hand?

[Chucklemonkey]

Not at home and so I don't have my books available for checking, but would that mean that if Hamelin's crew forced the opponent to discard any number of cards from his Hand as the result from some Spells/Triggers... Hamelin's controller would be able to take that same number of cards onto his own Hand?

I don't think discarding a control card would count as playing one. If it did, then you would be drawing two cards every time your opponent plays one in a duel. One when he plays it and one when the cards are subsequently discarded at the end of the duel.

Still we would be getting some advantages whenever they try any tricks on their own models or summoning and such. I really like what they have come up with for Hamelin in this sense. I hope he is out sooner rather than later so I can see this in action.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Chucklemonkey

[LastDinosaur]

Just to clarify the initial post, it isn't when your opponent cheats, it's when your opponent plays a control card.

..

If cheating doesn't count, then what is playing a control card?

[Chucklemonkey]

..

If cheating doesn't count, then what is playing a control card?

Cheating does count, I think tenebrae was just pointing out that there may be times a control card is played other than cheating fate.

I can't think of any off the top of my head but surely there are some out there...?