Toni Ironsides "Bring it" and "Good shot, my turn" interaction clarification

[HobbyNecromancer]

Hello,

Toni Ironsides has a DF trigger that let's here do a 2/3/5 damage flip ("Good shot, my turn").

As I understand it, the damage flip on "Good shot, my turn" will be determined by the fate modifier regardless of who won the duel.

I am unsure how it interacts with her "Bring it!" action which forces a model to walk up to her and hit her.

"Bring it!" states that "Any damage flips from the generated Action suffers a negative flip". Does the resistance trigger count as a flip "generated from" the action? The resistance triggers timing is "after resolving", if that makes any difference.

Hope this is the right place to ask this. I'm pretty new to the game and have googled around a bunch but not found anything about this interaction. 

Regards,

Oscar

[Adran]

I don't think that the damage flip counts as a damage flip from the action, and so it won't have that extra negative flip. 

 

[HobbyNecromancer]

Thank you! That is the way I have been playing it, but the ability feels very strong so I wanted to double check While on the topic of Toni and defence triggers, I found a thread about the effect of focus on the damage flip ("defence triggers and focus"). It is an old thread with no final answer, but looking at the current errata, this seems to settle the question in favour of Toni getting a pos flip on the damage when using focus:

5 If a model suffers damage from a Trigger, is that damage considered to also be from the Action that generated the Trigger?
a) Yes. Effects from Triggers are additional effects of the Action. Thus, Abilities such as Incorporeal that modify the effects of certain Actions would also modify the effects of their Triggers.

 

 

[Adran]

11 hours ago, HobbyNecromancer said:

Thank you! That is the way I have been playing it, but the ability feels very strong so I wanted to double check While on the topic of Toni and defence triggers, I found a thread about the effect of focus on the damage flip ("defence triggers and focus"). It is an old thread with no final answer, but looking at the current errata, this seems to settle the question in favour of Toni getting a pos flip on the damage when using focus:

5 If a model suffers damage from a Trigger, is that damage considered to also be from the Action that generated the Trigger?
a) Yes. Effects from Triggers are additional effects of the Action. Thus, Abilities such as Incorporeal that modify the effects of certain Actions would also modify the effects of their Triggers.

 

 

That question doesn't have any relevance to resistance triggers, because they aren't generated by an action.

I don't know what the answer is but as long as both players agree beforehand it shouldn't break anything either way, it just changes the decision space around concentrate and targeting Toni. 

[HobbyNecromancer]

Ok, thanks again, that makes sense! I misread that FAQ, but now it makes more sense with "bring it", i.e. that the damage flip Toni makes is not from the offensive action the target takes.

Looking at the wording for focused it seems pretty clear that she would get the positive flip to damage,

"Before performing an opposed duel, this model may lower the value of this Condition by one to receive a positive flip to the del (and any resulting damage flip this model makes)".

This seems similar to the accuracy fate modifier where a "variable flip (often damage flip) as the result of an opposed duel" gets the modifier. (What I mean is, the terminology of a damage flip "resulting" from a duel would get the pos flip, and the damage flip from "Good shot" is a result of the opposed duel where focus was potentially used).

[Adran]

Looking back at the thread I don't think there was any argument as to why focus wouldn't work other than it seemed too good. It's at least an uncheatable damage flip so even if you are at positives you can't control the damage.