Rankings 2015 idea

[Ausplosions]

Intent is almost impossible to prove.

IMHO at the point there's an established regular pattern of someone receiving game losses / score adjustments because of the way they're handling their games it doesn't matter if their behaviour is deliberate or accidental. It needs to improve one way or the other.

Mistakes happen.

It sounds like you have been beaten in error in the past, and I'm sure it's disappointing. But to propose a situation where by a person who makes mistakes is penalised, PUBLICLY, is not the sort of competitive scene Malifaux needs.

[Barnaberible]

The only outcome I can see from this is a drop off from newer players intimidated by penalty rules.

 

Personally I disagree with this. Once again I think we need to emphasise this is not about punishing someone who makes mistakes, particularly new players. Everyone makes mistakes, it's a complicated game. This is about trying to identify if people are consistently making the same mistake and implementing a system to flag those mistakes and sanction them if they continue to do so.

Now imagine the situation where a first time tournament player is facing a 'top player' and suspects that player of not playing fairly (not declaring a bodyguard target for example) would he have the nerve to challenge that player, particularly as the community is that well regarded. If I played in my first tournament against an experienced player who did this I would probably think 'sod that, if that's how people get good at this game I don't think I'll bother'

At the minute IF this is happening there is no deterrent for it, what kind of impression does that give?

I understand that deduction of ranking points may not be the answer as a lot of people are saying but if it isn't then what is?

And for the benefit of Aus I will once again state, this is not about punishing innocent mistakes made in games.

[Ausplosions]

If it isn't about punishing innocent mistakes, it's about punishing cheating. And if a player is cheating, they are banned from the tournament.

We don't need a sliding scale of cheating penalties. The punishment is ejection.

If we are imposing a sliding scale, we are either saying it's okay to deliberately play incorrectly a few times, or its not okay to make a number of honest mistakes.

Which is it? Because both of those messages are a bad message.

[mythicFOX]

A ranking system is about reflecting the skill level of players. I don't see why that calculation cannot include a variable for how many times a judge has to end your game because you've hired too many models into your crew.

Would you genuinely be comfortable that the number one ranked player is getting a game loss at every other event they attend? At that point are they genuinely the most skilled player? I'd argue no.

There's nothing wrong with taking the number of very seriouse errors a player makes into account when you're rating their performance as a player against their peers.

[M_Ruckuss]

Would you genuinely be comfortable that the number one ranked player is getting a game loss at every other event they attend? At that point are they genuinely the most skilled player? I'd argue no.

 

Yes, because the highest i've finished on the 3 occasion i've done this is 4th- they wouldn't be number one for very long....  The problem with this debate is that so many variables and possibilties are covered by the opening post that we are all adopting different stance points. 

 

A game I played against Rob Smith earlier this year I was a stone over (I now count 4 times to check I dont repeat the error). I had 2 stones left in my cache. He pointed out I was over, we did the math and I ceded the game straight away, even though technically no advantage had been gained. Again, one incident so not inline with repeat offending, but MISTAKES HAPPEN!

 

edit:typos

[mythicFOX]

I think you're probably right that we're all talking about slightly different things. We're all on record with our view points and as it's clear that the idea seems to be a non-starter I'm happy to draw the thread to a close rather than have it rumble on repeating the same points.

 

Unless anyone has anything major they want to add I'll lock this thread later today.

[Barnaberible]

If it isn't about punishing innocent mistakes, it's about punishing cheating. And if a player is cheating, they are banned from the tournament.

 

 

For me I think its about putting in a system to try and identify when innocent mistakes become cheating. In my earlier example if I consistently used pull the void as Tara's last action it is an illegal move. I might not know this because I didn't read the card properly. If its not pointed out to me I might continue to do it without realising. If it is pointed out to me then sure I might forget on other occasions and it would be pointed out to me again. 

 

so, the question is, at what stage do I stop getting the benefit of the doubt and start being punished for it, 3rd time? 5th time? Never?

[deValmont]

  I think this is best dealt with at the TO level. I agree with several people above:

 

Scheme not recorded correctly - cannot score from that scheme (Max 7VP)

Soulstone limit exceeded - 10-0 for that game to opponent

Clear evidence of cheating - TO discretion, either 10-0 for that game or disqualification.

 

 Then there's no black marks on MalifauxRankings (A terrible idea, in my opinion), but people are being penalised with some level of standardisation.