PiersonsMuppeteer

I think the Viks are a pretty good crew for the Assassin/Swordmaster archtype. Both Viks1 and Viks2 have this playstyle, but each offers a different approach. Viks1 plays the finesse Assassin game, while Viks2 is more of a Brawler. The crew itself has good mobility and one of the best minions in the game, so they are pretty generalist and can take on many pools (they may not crush the pool but they also won’t fall flat).

Misaki and LJ offer an Assassin/Brawler and a Title that Controls/Supports, so they can offer you a different aspect if you don’t want to be solely assassin/swordsman. I don’t have any experience with or against either, so I can’t comment on anything else for those two.

Pg. 22:

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Bonus Actions (denoted with the  icon) are Actions that do not count against a model’s Action limit. A model can only take one Bonus Action per Activation, unless the Action was generated by a Action, Ability, or Trigger.

6 hours ago, TimH said:

Next is an ability called "Power the Engine" but for the sake of this topic I'm using Draw Essence instead as the wording on the two is identical (at least in the relevant areas). The model throws out a damaging pulse and then "For each other model damaged by this Action, this model Heals 1". Now the question on this one is whether or not this is multiple heals of 1 or a single combined heal. So if you peform the action and damage 3 models for 1 damage would you then heal 3, or heal 3 instances of 1. This is very relevant to the model in question.

If the heal was part of the effect causing the duels, then you would have a separate heal for each enemy model the effect resolves on. As is, the heal is a separate effect (resolved after all the duels) and is singularly resolved on "this model". How much the model will heal is calculated during the "determine amount to be healed" step.

MTK would still be resolved after BYS due to Sequential Effects (p. 34), so they CAN be used together. Any Place effect from an Action, Ability, or Trigger during the Activation Phase will cause MTK to be generated. The only times MTK won't trigger are when you Place the model during the Start or End Phases.

MTK's "after resolving the current Action" is specifying that if an effect of an Action generates MTK, you will resolve MTK during Step 6 of resolving an Action instead of in Step 5.

Since the second clause doesn't state a different object from the model with Beneath the Leaves, the generating object is the model with Beneath the Leaves. Malifaux Mining Law on Prospectors would be an example of a model generating an  from an object other than itself.

The phrase is like that simply for clarity/ease-of-use. With it, you don't have to have the Aura rules memorized in order to know how to resolve the effect.

The effect disappears when Brewmaster is killed. Open the Gourd is on Brewmasters stat card and is only in effect while the model the stat card belongs to is in play.

To show the inverse, what could you reference to resolve the effect after Brewmaster is killed and the model/stat card are removed from play? 

Search the forums for “building on a budget”. A member did a beginner shopping list for each faction broken down per master. A very good starting point for buying 2-3 boxes and putting a decent crew on the table for games.

Black Blood will still deal damage even if the model dies. Black Blood’s effect is resolved in step 5 of damage timing. After assigning Black Blood’s damage to all models in range, you continue through the young nephilim’s damage timing until fully resolved. Then you resolve the damage timing for each model that suffered damage from Black Blood.

This is pretty explicitly spelled out in the first paragraph of the damage timing section.

7 hours ago, TheUnseemlyOne said:

It could be argued that the last bit of Bring It saying “…targeting this model, if able” just means that the model using Bring It must be the target of declared action if it’s a legal target. If it’s not a valid target, the action would fail as described in step 3. 

No, it couldn't. You can't just split clauses. 

If the target model is able to declare a melee action that can target the Bring It model, it must. Otherwise, it doesn't take any action.

11 hours ago, solkan said:

Is there a requirement that the model choose the melee action that could have succeeded instead of the one that is out of range?  No, there isn't.

 

There is. The “must” also includes targeting the model that used Bring It. If the target doesn’t have a large enough engagement range to target the Bring It model, no attack action is taken. In your example, the target model must take the attack action that is able to target the Bring It model or take no action at all.

2 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

This that happen "after" an event generally happen during the overall timing step of the event, such as things that happen after resolving an action still happen during the action resolution. "After" basically creates a substep and only once that is resolved is the main effect resolved. So for duels, anything that happen after failing/succeeding a duel would happen before the cards from the duel are discarded.

 

I'd be inclined to agree if resolving a duel had a Step G for resolving "after" effects similar to how resolving an Action has Step 6. Also, there is this:

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Most Abilities are passive and always in effect, but some occur as a result of another game effect. In these cases, the Ability will use the word “After.” These Abilities happen after the effect in question is resolved.

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Once the effect that caused a card to be flipped is resolved, the card is discarded.

Unless there is explicit language to specify timing like Step 6, the duel is resolved once failure/success is determined. Since the effect (the duel) is resolved, the card is discarded. Finally, any "after" effects from abilities that trigger off of success/failure of a duel will resolve. I suppose maybe simultaneous effects could let the player determine if the discard or "after" effects resolve first, but that seems a little too gamey imo.

#2: Most seem to play that once a Duel is resolved, the cards in the Conflict are discarded (the Duel is the effect which caused the flip). See this thread for more info: https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/154439-misaki-abandon-honor-and-discard-timing/#comment-1259963 

As such, the card in the conflict when the duel is failed would be the card added to your Configuration. Cheating would cause you to add the cheated card to your configuration.

The Viks are melee murder machines that have a good amount of play into most pools/masters due to a mix of a well rounded crew and Outcast’s decent selection of Versatile models. 

Summon based masters are also strong for an all comers option. You get more options for how you want to solve scoring & killing.

I think your friends are too worried about model competitive viability. Have them focus on aesthetics and gameplay, personal competitive viability will come with experience. A person is more likely to learn from their mistakes if they enjoy the crew more than if it is supposed to be competitive (in which case most go “why doesn’t X work for me!?!”).

I selected my first crew just off faction/crew aesthetics and the wyrd site master gameplay blurbs (Asami/Oni), and it remains my favorite crew after trying plenty of others. Kind of like a multiple-choice question, your first choice is usually the correct one (the sub-conscious knows what the conscious doesn’t).

5 hours ago, Adran said:

I would disagree

 The Faq says that the new model is not targeted, and does not benefit from any of its own abilities that resolve when targeted.  I don't think the fact that manipulative has a long term effect means it avoids those two issue. ( this might be because I found the easiest way to make the FAQ make sense is that I see a difference between the verb Target and the noun Target, and reading that way manipulative needs you to actively target, and using take the hit you don't actively target it). 

The FAQ specifically calls out that Manipulative is different from “targeted” abilities like Terrifying…

Manipulative is not a long term effect, it resolves in Step 4 if a model is the target (passive target) of the action.

1 hour ago, Adran said:

No it does not. Using target switching abilities generally means you don't get any abilities that are " after targeting". 

A Komainu w/ Chiaki's reliquary can benefit from Manipulative. The model with TTH on its stat card does not benefit from the original target's Manipulative, but it would benefit from its own Manipulative (if it has it) after it has become the new target. 

Short answer, the model using TTH benefits from its own Manipulative (if it has it). See FAQ 2.12. 

4 hours ago, Adran said:

Why do you say Pandora is the controller of the effect?

Is it just because she is the creator of the effect? Because that doesn't always follow. ( see drop it for something that is not controlled by the model that created the effect). 

And since the auras rules strongly imply that the object the aura is measured from is the object that is generating it, which does not have to be the same as the object that created it, I think it ends up being an effect from a friendly model. 

 

Drop it explicitly states that the Enemy model drops the maker (thus making the drop not controlled by the creator of the effect). There is no such explicit distinction that control of the effect is passed to the target.

1 hour ago, solkan said:

No, that’s not how friendly/enemy work.  “Every Ability, Action, and Trigger on a model’s Stat Card and Attached Upgrades treats the use of “friendly” and “enemy” from its point of view.”
 

As second edition put it, friendly/enemy is effectively relative to the model’s card, not relative to whatever it gets applied to.  

That was a statement made to show that the rules don't support Eye of the Hurricane being moot against No Shelter Here (I think we agree?). 

Your quote helps to sum up how No Shelter Here's Aura should be viewed imo; which model's stat card is the effect on? If it is an enemy model, Eye of the Hurricane can allow friendly models to ignore the Aura's effect.

An example of an "enemy" Aura that Eye of the Hurricane wouldn't work on is Daw2's Curse of Reckoning as the Upgrade adds the Aura to a friendly model's stat card.

An Aura is an effect that affects an area around an object, in this case the object is the target of No Shelter Here. Pandora is still the controller of the effect, so models that consider her an enemy could ignore it with Eye of the Storm.

If No Shelter Here was treated as an aura from the target and not the attacker (and thus be a friendly Aura), it would affect Pandora's own crew with hazardous. 

In your example, Zoraida would draw the card. Zoraida controls the model through all 6 steps of resolving the action and would gain any resources the controlled model gains. In this case, Agent 46 gains a card in Step 6 while still under Zoraida’s control.

There hasn’t been an official FAQ on the matter. For now, it is up to the individuals or TO to determine if base contact with Aura created terrain is possible.

For the ranged models mentioned, you really give up 2/3 of the upgrade in most circumstances. 

I’ve tried this on the Ashigaru and Jorogumo to fun effect to make their bonus action a pseudo Obey on the Kabuki they brought with them on the charge. Kabuki gives the defending model a minus twist to the bonus action duel, and both models can help defend the Kabuki.

Upgrade would be great on Komainu if Spirit Walker had a melee attack, but it wasn’t meant to be. Still isn’t bad on them to yank Izamu and Toshiro into the action and a potential whack or three.

1 hour ago, Diceman87 said:

@solkandoes this mean that Black Blood/ Vengeance still damage attackers, even if the model with the ability dies to the attack?

Black Blood does since it is generated during the Damage Timing structure. Vengeance is after the Action resolves, so I think the model wouldn’t be on the table to generate the Vengeance effect.

1 hour ago, Paddywhack said:

I wouldn't mess with the Komainu's stats really. It's Empty Vessel that needs the hit. That would help make Yan2 a lot easier to take down as well as reducing his movement potential. 

Changing Empty Vessel would also affect Gokudo. I’m not sure they are good enough to warrant getting hit as well.