Misaki, Abandon Honor, and discard timing

[TheUnseemlyOne]

Abandon Honor allows Misaki to shuffle cards from her discard pile into the deck.  Page 8 of the RM says that once an effect that caused a card to be flipped is resolved, it is discarded from the conflict. 
 

So the question is, is the action or the duel the effect that caused the card to be placed into the conflict?  
 

If the card in the conflict is discarded after the duel, that should allow Misaki to shuffle the card used in the duel back into her deck.   Is that correct, or is the card discarded after the action is resolved. 

[santaclaws01]

The duel is the effect that put the card in the conflict in this case.

[belorey]

1 hour ago, TheUnseemlyOne said:

If the card in the conflict is discarded after the duel, that should allow Misaki to shuffle the card used in the duel back into her deck.   Is that correct, or is the card discarded after the action is resolved. 

I play like this, i always thought that after the duel you discard all cards so you can use the discarded card. How do you play?

[TheUnseemlyOne]

1 hour ago, belorey said:

I play like this, i always thought that after the duel you discard all cards so you can use the discarded card. How do you play?

This is how I play it as well, but it came up during a game and we couldn’t find a completely unambiguous answer in the rules. 

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

On 7/29/2021 at 6:42 AM, belorey said:

I play like this, i always thought that after the duel you discard all cards so you can use the discarded card. How do you play?

If this were the case, then "The Old Ways" would be able to flip the card used for the opposing duel of an attack action for the damage flip and get double use of a severe in a single action (which doesn't seem right to me). Correct me if wrong, but my understanding is that an "effect" is all of the text after an Action, Ability, Trigger, etc. In my mind this translates to the card, which was flipped/cheated for the Abandon Horror effect, not being discarded until the text for Abandon Horror is resolved.

In contrast, "Prophecies in Thunder" is able to shuffle the card used for the duel because the trigger, which is resolved after the Action's effect is resolved, will shuffle it in.

That's how I've been playing it at least, but I won't die on that hill if more rules text can be provided which shows that a duel is an effect in of itself.

[santaclaws01]

25 minutes ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

If this were the case, then "The Old Ways" would be able to flip the card used for the opposing duel of an attack action for the damage flip and get double use of a severe in a single action (which doesn't seem right to me).

You can't use old ways on a damage flip.

25 minutes ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

Correct me if wrong, but my understanding is that an "effect" is all of the text after an Action, Ability, Trigger, etc. In my mind this translates to the card, which was flipped/cheated for the Abandon Horror effect, not being discarded until the text for Abandon Horror is resolved.

To continue with using old ways interactions, if you waited to discard the card for taking the action until after fully resolving the action, then you'd have the card used for taking the action being discarded at the same time as the card used for the damage flip, and could just put the card for the action on top and use the old ways on it.

[Adran]

If the action includes a damage flip then it has to have removed the duel cards from the conflict before you flip for damage. 

Effect means what they want it to mean unfortunately. Sometimes it might be the whole of an action, other times it's a small step inside the action. 

[belorey]

2 hours ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

If this were the case, then "The Old Ways" would be able to flip the card used for the opposing duel of an attack action for the damage flip and get double use of a severe in a single action (which doesn't seem right to me).

You cannot do The Old Ways when flipping damage. Thats not a duel is a damge flip.