extremor

I really love Alan Reid in combination with the false witnesses for their distraction aura suits well with boring conversation... and the don’t Tell lies aura is awesome as well. 
 

so I would play something like:

New Lucius Mattheson Crew (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 3
Leader:
  Lucius Mattheson
Totem(s):
  The Scribe
Hires:
  Agent 46
  Alan Reid
  False Witness
  False Witness 2
  Guild Lawyer
  Vasilisa
  Wicked Doll
  Wicked Doll 2
References:
  Stitched Together
  Wicked Doll

or include BBS as well!!!

Regarding the Investigator in particular:

yes they would definitely be better with 1“ melee range. But they perform quite alright as backline denial. Keeping em in the back to use their scheme denial. Therefor I think they could use a  Build in trigger on their interrogation attack as an alternative to 1“ engagement. 

9 hours ago, SEV said:

Lucius and Marcus are no real NB

Blasphemy 😡
 

but puppets I love. 

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Four models with leap!!!

And then wyrd nerfes leap in the next errata just as we Neverborn got our 4 leapsters...😫

I’d love to see Klaus Norwood a Neverborn Mimic henchman. 

2 hours ago, Rosenzweig said:

It occurred to me that you can use Vasilisa to "order" Agent 46 to take a free action, like Inhuman Physiology, and in activation he can then Mimic something like Angel Eyes' gun, for a potential volley of uncheatable ranged actions. 

No not possible because agent 46 ain’t no minion. 

2 hours ago, ooshawn said:

 

Having played around 10 or so games with lucius, I feel like he is a weaker keyword than zoraida.

 

Yes, I think so, too. 

2 hours ago, ooshawn said:

There really is no reason to pick lucius over Z in my opinion outside of not paying a tax on his scheme marker related minions.

Well Lucius himself has way more style, his models look hellalot better, no one whines about him being too strong, he has nice synergies which are a challenge to master AND it is more satisfying to make him work on the battlefield 
that’s a lot of reasons except for competition gaming in tournaments. But then again Malifaux is not made for tournaments or balanced to be played completely competitive. 
 

2 hours ago, ooshawn said:

zoraida does everything he does better.

Z hasn’t got the annoying auras of L. Subterfuge, Betrayal, Diversion, boring conversation, distraction, stand back it’s evidence, exclusive interview, active crime scene and Tell no lies - these are the best ones... chatty, chasing a story and remove evidence come on top of that . Quite something. Yes i am surely talking myself into playing Lucius over and over again. Yes i rarely play fully in keyword cause it is frustrating to get tabled turn 3-4 by these lame Killy crews. Yes it is hard as nails. 

2 hours ago, ooshawn said:

She's literally littered in leap.

Yes her models work in their own. Lucius needs teamwork and enemies without AOE. That’s why Z is better and less challenging.  

2 hours ago, ooshawn said:

He's a solid C tier master that won't wow you, but I thoroughly enjoy him.

👍you got it. If the encounter and enemy crew favors you and you tech well he’s more than tier C for sure. 
 

Then again: you can’t chose whom to fall in love with. For me it is the Neverborn with the mask. He came to me by fate and will always be mine *chuckle chuckle*

That’s what I meant. It may be worth trying imho. Maybe simply rushing to beat wouldn’t be that strong anymore...

Just now, belorey said:

Runic Binding noooo please. I think is the worst scheme of the game. Very hard to do and need too many resources. 

But maybe an Strat that you need to take control of them and defend from enemies. So if you are B2B at the end of the turn you score 1VP. It could be 1 50mm marker and you must deploy in the midle of your side of the table. They must take control of yours and you have to take control of the opposite.

I come from TOS and I really like the scheme. Maybe if there are more like that and scoring gets more difficult in every way...? But that’s not a wish I have but a direction the game could evolve to 

@beloreyWhat if the schemepool would change and there would be way more schemes to score „near“ but depending upon opponent models (like runic binding)? 
I think most crews I read about that need nerfing are brutal and flexible. I would love to see more control then beating. 

1 hour ago, Chris Rivers said:

You can also use Lucius to Issue Command to a Lawyer to Obey a Mature, this will yield a card from the lawyer if you have less than your hand size or card cycle if at max hand size.

If you get that 9+ needed for the obey you are perfectly right. Sometimes it is wise to do so, sometimes not. I would simply look at my discard pile to get an idea...

How about 4 strategies and none of them are killy? I at least would like to see how the meta  evolves around that. 

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

"this action" is on a per model basis, so you can chain things like you've described. In fact, that's the whole point of a Lucius crew

That’s how I always played it and never got any doubt so far. Until today .... thanks for clarification!👍
where can I find the „model Basis“ in the rules?

Hello everyone 

if an action states „this action cannot target the same Model more than once per activation“ - what exactly is „this action“?

or to be precise can a lawyer:

1. obey model A 

and then 

2. obey another lawyer to obey model A

another example:

can Lucius „issue command“ Model A and then „issue command“ an changeling who is using just like you to „issue command“ Model A???

Congratulations to the most stylish master of the Neverborn 🥰
 

If I play mature nephilim I want him stacked with focus. Since he can only concentrate once during his own activation I use Lucius’ „issue command“ to concentrate with him during the activation of Lucius. One or two changeling and lawyers can do the same. Chagelings use „just like you“ to copy „issue command“ from Lucius. Lawyers use obey. 

9 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

9 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

 

Stitched are interesting. I definitely don't think they're great hires, so they're about the spot you'd expect for a summon. I don't think Stitched are overly powerful, and was a big advocate for the one change they did get (making Gamble an attack so it didn't bypass so much defensive tech).

I do think Dreamer's crew is overpowered, and Stitched get the blame for the overall strength of the crew.

I think the nerf was fine. That Dreamer is still above the curve is a keyword issue IMO. And if NVB get a few buffs elsewhere and some other tier S masters get tuned down I would welcome some other nerf to nightmare...

I think listening to the community is a good way to get the all stars to disappear. The hivemind seeks strong combos and regularity finds them. If buffed/nerfed appropriately the game will come to a state of balance, I which a majority of models get to see action. I would love to see that happening. 

I don’t know wyrds policy for long but they seem to make a good job the me. 
 

I enjoy close and thrilling games. If wyrd wants to keep me a customer and supporting the game through recruiting new players, I want my beloved masters to be as good as others. And in an ideal situation all the models of my keyword are essential to the komplexity of the Game. 
 

on the other side I dislike games in which I get a feeling of being powerless to enemy tactics, attacks or combos. Eg: I really hate irreducible damage or combos like toshiro&massive corpse generation to spam ashigaru (because they are a real pain to deal with). 
 

esp. toshiro and several others are cheap, so even if taxed ook they seem way better than some keyword model and that can be easily fixed by wyrd as these models/combos are addressed clearly and don’t remain secret...!

edit: and then there won’t be much errata necessary!

As much as I appreciate your thoughts and value them it seems to me that Malifaux is a way too complex game for these general rules. There are so many different models and synergies that there will be new problems rising from generally changing the game (15ss cap/ minion cost reduction etc) It hurts to say but I think the most urgent way to balance malifaux is errata and buffing/nerfing. 
 

BUT it is soooo much fun to read your thoughts. Please go on. I love it. 
 

edit: I like the idea of optional alternate settings a lot

Do you want to share your insights on your Training?

17 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

On the topic of the centre, I dont' know if anyone has mentioned 'sieging' the centre, but it can be quite good.

A Rogue Necromancy spewing Projectile Vomit into the Centre can swing a game. It's so ridiculous to just throw AOE conditions into the centre. Crews that pile into the centre seem especially vulnerable to AOE.

I dont play forces of mordor yet, but I may give the hooded+serena a try de to their blast triggers... good thinking

@ooshawn pewwww. you read very frustrated. even though I think this aint the right place to have a Lucius/leap discussion I would like to cool down this frustration a bit. 

1. changelings cant be compared to necropunks. they are way too different. changelings are no cheap and fast schemerunners. they obviously havent been meant for that. they are designed for other purpose(s): changelings are an effective MASTER-AP! you use just like you to issue command lucius himself. A 4ss minion that generate an Master AP is awesome. so every changeling activation gives you at least 1 card if you use lucius to issue another model afterwards... so you can use that chageling AP to activate your important models like alan/agent/lawyer etc and draw. then if you bring agent/doppel you can copy just like you with mimic. it may not look very efficient BUT you can swap AP to places they are needed - thats good imho. furthermore they have stealth and disguised - 2 strong defensive abilities that keep em safe if you stay away from the enemy half. 

2. i  respectfuly disagree - lucius main defense aint intimidating authorities. its placement and handsculpting. i.a. is too easyly countered. Focus is the best way to do so since a lot of crews hand out focus like candy.

3. I also think lucius is kind of a deny-master. in my games with him I rarely score 7-8 VP. but I deny a lot of pionts to my opponent to win matches. maybe thats why he aint top tier...??    also: the few models I kill in a match with his crew have to make a real difference!!! otherwise i lose! I dont blindly charge in or widely spread your crew around the whole board (If I want that I play Collodi or Dreamer).

4. to me the OOK/Versatile saviours of the day in a lucius crew are: Angel Eyes, Mature Nephilim, BBS, Vasilisa&Dolls-->Stiched    then come Serena and Rider

5. you cant field lucius in every strat/scheme. he is special

BUT: I get your frustration about the keyword as a whole. there are quite some powerhouses out there and lucius aint one of them. on top of that he is hard to play... and thats why I love him so much!!

note that I am an average player and no top tourney player.

1 hour ago, Adran said:

Lets see then, ways to either drop markers or move out of engagement (ignoring getting free actions from obey or issue command) to allow you to interact

Under pressure trigger, Entourage, Stand back its evidence, Draw out secrets trigger, I've got your back, False claim, Don't mind me, Lure.

Thats quite a few in keyword. 

Leap isn't the answer. (well ok, leap is the answer, and an awesome answer to this question in general, but its not the only answer, and if you don't have access to leap, you do have access to other tools. )

 

sorry to object: Entourage allows unengaged models to walk... so no, thats not an answer. BUT: yes Lucius has several other options. 

I consider Lucius a scalpel master, that has lots of ways to be played. controlling the center is only one of them. tbh i think he doesn't really want to play that game... his keyword is way too squishy and he profits a lot from the mentioned "winning the center hysteria"...  he can easily excerpt single models via lure/obey into his own deathzone or simply shoot em dead at range. I prefere to stay 6" away from the enemy at the center (subterfuge, missinformation, betrayal, boring conversation) and then again he can drop schememarkers at range... so why bother getting stomped at the center? 

btt: to me it helped a lot to adapt to the "stop maling bad encounters" from tfw. I love matches with great opportunities and a wide range to score. even though I always think about "how to react to my ennemy claiming the center". Maining Marcus and Lucius for several month I rarely lack answers to that. If these answers succeed... well thats another story... 😌

So, next round here. I tried to think outside the bubbles for some of the fewer used models (my standard of course) and today I’m starting with 

razorspine rattler:

IMO they lack a true purpose. They seem to have been stuck half way between scheming and slowing down/binding enemy models. Lots of crews have their own way of leaving engagements other than disengagement so they seem to lack something. I think they should be more annoying like: boring conversation or diversion aura. 
 

what do you think?

I think the investigators could use a build in Delay trigger on their interrogate attack. This attack I rarely use and in general I think the investigator could be buffed a little. 

You can also start with Lucius and angel eyes together like:

Leader:
  Lucius Mattheson
Totem(s):
  The Scribe
Hires:
  Angel Eyes
  Agent 46
  Guild Lawyer 2
  Changeling
 

and expand from there...